Vet said puppies died of parvo - WRONG - do I have a case?

Question

Ok, so I've had this issue nagging at me and I think its time to get some input. WARNING - LONG POST!

On October 18th, my dog Bella had 7 babies. Everyone was happy and healthy, until the weekend of Thanksgiving. Suddenly, one puppy (rosalie) got very lethargic, stopped eating, and passed away by the next day. I called all my local veterinarians, but they were all closed. I didn't have the money for the emergency vet. My own vet was also closed.

3 days after rosalie died, Emmett and Esme started showing the same signs. My vet was still closed, but there was a vet in my area that was open. We rushed them over, and they refused to allow them inside the building until a parvo test was done. I told them that I have seen how parvo kills puppies and this did not match - parvo comes with a bad smell, diarhea and vomiting - these puppies had none of that. Parvo kills everyone who has it at the same time - these puppies were fine when rosalie died.

The vet refused to listen to me and insisted on the parvo test. 20 minutes later, she brings me into the office and said that Both puppies came up NEGATIVE for parvo - BUT they were probably showing a False negative, because sometimes the mother's antibodies can confuse the test...

I told the vet again that this does not behave like parvo - she offered to euthenize the pups for me since we couldn't see them suffer - so the bill was 119.00. when it could have 319.00.

3 days later, Jasper went down - but we gave him a general over the counter de-wormer and he fought for nearly a week, much longer than the other puppies had, but died in the end, leaving us with only 3 left.

By this time, my vet finally re-opened. I asked her, What Kills Puppies Like This???
My vet said it was Fading Puppy Syndrome. She said that at some point during a lapse in flea prevention, Bella had contracted parasites from flea bites, or even running through standing water. She had me bring in the puppies and they tested positive for common round worm, hook worm, and tape worm, and had passed these parasites to the puppies through her milk.

Soon after this diagnosis, Ashley, the 5th pup, went down, and we treated her right away for all those worms. She recovered, but later died due to a fourth parasite called Coccidia, that can be contracted by injesting feces - her system just could not handle that last one right after all the others.

The last two, Alice and Carlisle NEVER got sick - they were treated for all the parasites and went on to new homes without issues.

Here's thing that bugs me - when we took Emmet and Esme in - and I told the vet that this was NOT killing like parvo kills, and both puppies came up negative for it - shouldn't the vet have checked for parasites as a cause??? Instead of giving me a pamphlet on parvo and sending me away? If she had checked for them, we might have saved Jasper and Ashley by properly medicating them weeks earlier, and possibly even Emmett and Esme.

These are purebred siberian huskies, and as such, they have a property value attached to them. Does anyone think I may have a case against that vet for not doing her job?

Answer 1

Anybody can sue. Can you win? Maybe. You would have to prove negligence, and even in the case of negligence, awards can be reduced due to contributory negligence. You contributed greatly to the problem. There is this one little tidbit you gave that no one else seemed to have picked up on.



'My vet said it was Fading Puppy Syndrome. She said that at some point during a lapse in flea prevention, Bella had contracted parasites from flea bites, or even running through standing water. '



How could the vet know there was a lapse in flea prevention without asking if you about it and you admitting to it? That's where it all started.



After that, there are all of your 'reasons' for not getting the animals to medical attention for days upon days. Any decent defense attorney will pick you apart.

Answer 2

Clearly half of these respondents didn't read the entire question at all. The issue here was that after BOTH puppies tested Negative for parvo - Vet #1 should have done other testing. Such testing might have saved some of the subsequent puppies that died.



I did not walk into Vet #1's office and say - "I don't have a lot of money, give me the cheapest I get get." The price mentioned was to illustrate that Vet #1 did me a service - she euthanized both puppies at a discounted rate - because she felt bad for the puppies - not because I asked her to. We were prepared to pay the 300 dollar bill. However, as anyone who has Ever taken an animal to an emergency vet - it is highly unlikely that 300 dollars would have covered even a portion of the extensively high fees at an emergency vet - that doesn't mean we had NO funds to properly have the puppies treated - only that we didn't have THAT much.



The puppies that died did NOT die of Parvo - the surviving puppies were diagnosed by Vet #2 with treatable parasites that may have been transmitted by the Mother. That Vet took this into account when asked about the lost puppies and tendered an expert opinion that the lost puppies likely died due to Puppy Fading Syndrome, caused by the same parasites that the surviving puppies had.



The mother WAS/IS up to date on shots, but like many other dog owners out there, they often are not treated for parasites as an adult unless an issue regarding them is identified.



It is not uncommon for a breeder to be seriously mistaken in all of the problems and issues that could occur when breeding dogs. One would hope that much research would go into the practice before one started, but it's hardly a new concept that one can start as a breeder by having a girl and a boy dog. In most cases, it's tragic experiences like this that lead to education and (one would hope) better practices on the part of the breeder.



Early mishaps and losses can and do occur when a new breeder begins without fully knowing all the possible happenings and all the precautions that should be taken. While these are tragic, it's not like it never happens to anyone else - on the contrary, it very often Does happen. This doesn't make a breeder a BYB or a Puppy Mill - it makes the breeder Uneducated and Unprepared - the mark of a good or bad breeder is how they take experiences like this and either learn from it, or not.



In this case - I learned a LOT about parasites that I had not previously known. My dogs were NEVER lapsing on proper shots or medical care, but they were lapsing on flea preventative - which could have prevented the parasites that killed the puppies. However, this lapse wasn't a prolonged lapse - their monthly treatment had simply been delayed. We lived in rural area that was common for these environmental parasites, which we hadn't known then either.



Since this tragedy, we ensure that all of our dogs are kept current on parasite preventative. Our mothers are treated for potential parasites whenever they get pregnant in addition to regular treatments, just to be safe. We have researched the best treatments out there and receive regular advice from over 10,000 sources knowledgeable about all things dog - from the very experienced to veterinary professionals and more.



We did not pursue legal action for the issue within the question - not because we didn't believe we had a case (we still firmly believe that she should have done other testing), but because we felt that the time and resources that would have gone toward a legal battle was better spent improving the areas where we had failed with our dogs, and correcting those issues.

Answer 3

The puppies were ill and died. Not every vet has a crystal ball to diagnose 100% of the time perfectly. They go by what their tests and previous experience and teachings tell them is the most likely scenario of what's wrong. Same as any doctor, dentist or health care professional.



You can't stop fading puppy syndrome. Parvo is rampant in most cities. Both kill young puppies. I would expect any vet to test for parvo as their #1 most likely issue in severely sick puppies. Just like ringworm, parvo may not present in the expected clinical way. And puppies that have it but show no symptoms can still infect other dogs.



Parasites rarely are the main cause of death in puppies, you would have to have fleas be dripping off the puppies to worry about anemia. Parasites do NOT pass through the milk, they are passed through eggs the dog picks up from cleaning it's bottom (feces) and then licked onto the puppies faces. Milk glands don't harbor parasites.



And no vet allows dogs in to their main waiting room if they suspect parvo, the virus lives in any area that it's shed to, meaning the entire waiting room would have to be immediately wiped down with bleach water - our vet has a separate door that you bring in highly contagious animals through. The very last thing they want is to spread parvo to their other patient's dogs. The virus is 'live' in an area weeks after the original host has left.

Answer 4

No vet can diagnose everything 100% correctly every single time. Parvo can kill litter mates at different rates, and the vet was correct in not letting them in the building without the test.

If you had planned properly for these puppies, you'd have had a couple of thousand dollars saved for exactly cases like this. The mother would have been on preventative worming through the entire pregnancy, and the puppies ahould have been examined by your vet when they were a day or two old.

Beyond that, which on its own would be enough for you to loose a case, do you have certified necropsy reports on ALL of the puppies that died/were put down? Without those, you can't prove, without reasonable doubt, what they died from.

And unless your dogs have championship shopw titles or are exceptional working dogs, they don't really have much "property value". You'd be lucky if you could get a judge to say they were worth 50 bucks a peice.

Answer 5

I would get a professional consultation from a lawyer.



Although the veterinarian probably should have checked for parasites, both the parasites and parvo have a lot of similar symptoms, and with parvo being extremely popular health issue with puppies, I am not surprised that, that is what she thought it was. (Not all puppies with parvo have a distinctive smell)

Since the parasites were passed through your dog, the case could be turned back on you for not using preventative care on your mother dog for the parasites.



In addition to this, both veterinarians saw two completely different sets of puppies, making your case also difficult to predict if suing is an option.

I am sorry for your loss and the negative experience. Like I said, I would get a professional consultation but your statement that "it didn't smell like parvo" will not be valid in court, because there is no medical evidence that parvo "has a smell" although most veterinary technicians would agree.

Answer 6

I'd suggest this, maybe, WAS Fading Puppy Syndrom. I'm taking it you bred this litter in which case where did they get Parvo from? Presumably your b itch, the dam, was utd with her boosters before being mated in which case provided the puppies all took mum's first milk, the colostrum, this should have protected them too. Did you have loads of people visiting and more importantly, handling these puppies? Parvo can be walked in, and it can be transferred to vulnerable puppies via hands, which is why nobody comes in to see our litters during the early weeks, and even afterwards, they are asked to remove shoes and wash hands.



As for suing, it's unlikely you'll be successful to be honest. The only people to win in cases like this are the lawyers.



We sued one vet who delayed doing a C.Section on a b itch we'd taken in for one. 5 of 9 puppies didn't make it and we very nearly lost mum too. As it was, we couldn't think about putting her in whelp again, and a spay surgery later on showed one side of her uterus was shot. We were lucky to have the support of a KC Member, judge, vet and breeder but even so were advised to settle out of Court. At the end of the day it couldn't undo what had(n't) been done either.



This is really bad and I hurt for you. Sadly Fading Puppy Syndrome happens - I'll add a link

http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/fading-puppy-syndrome-neonatal-mortality.html



As for the involvement of internal parasites. I can't comment really other than to suggest that if mum had been wormed prior to being mated, although it's usual that puppies have some when first born, it shouldn't be so significant that it affects the puppies like this - and you'd worm from 2 weeks of age using a gentle worming syrup, and every 2 weeks on to the time they go home.



Coccidia? Hum. This I'd NOT expect in a young litter of puppies. Here is another link and I urge you to read how it happens in puppies! http://puppies.about.com/od/Puppy_Health/a/Coccidia-In-Puppies.htm



On this basis alone, I doubt you have cause to sue, other than for an incorrect diagnosis?

Answer 7

Where I work, we would've tested for parasites. They are so common, that is not to be overlooked. When we get a "negative" parvo test, we will look for something else.



Note: Your dog should be on monthly heartworm prevention, such as Sentinel, which deworms for hooks, rounds, and whips every 30 days and keeps them away for good. Tapeworms come from eating a flea, and are not passed from mom to puppies. The fleas are, though, and you can use Frontline Plus on mother dog safely.



Now that you know these things, that's good. I hope you will go ahead and spay your dog, though, when the puppies are weaned. This will prevent even more problems, such as mammary chain tumors and infected uterus (emergency surgery for that) down the road. It has also now been proven that spayed dogs will live longer than those left intact.



I'm sorry for your loss. I know it's such an emotional thing. To be honest, the whole thing could've been prevented, so I do hope you'll learn all you can about good, preventative care and dogs. Here are a couple of good websites to get you started:

www.veterinarypartner.com

www.indoorpet.osu.edu

Answer 8

No you don't have a case against the vet and I highly doubt that you'd of saved them anyway. Certainly sounds like fading puppy syndrome and they would succumb too quickly to save them.



As for them having a PROPERTY VALUE attached to them because they are purebred Siberian Huskies... jeez.. have you not noticed how many Siberian huskies AND PUPPIES are in rescue because there are not enough good homes out there.



Unless your dogs were working or show dogs with titles then the pups would of been worth next to nothing... and nice to see that their value seems to be more important to you than their lives.



NO I don't think you have a case against the vet. You should of saved enough money for the emergency vet or not breed in the first place. What would you of done if your b*tch needed an out of hours c-section.

Answer 9

You'd have to consult a lawyer, as to laws in your state. You'd also have to see if your vet (who decided it was fading puppy syndrome) would testify - many vets will not "dis" another one.



One immediate problem (IMO) is that the vet who supposedly diagnosed this (w/o any tests) as fading puppy syndrome - would find (if doing any reading on the subject) that this syndrome happens ONLY in puppies 1 to 2 weeks of age, not in puppies YOU CLAIM were approx. 5 WEEKS of age.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/puppy-fading-puppy-syndrome-in-dogs/760

There are a number of OTHER possible casues from environmental toxins (perhaps a cleaner you used) to bacterial & viral causes, not just parvo.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=197161&sk=&date=&pageID=3



In that you did not seemingly worm your dog before breeding & (perhaps at 3 weeks - did not worm the puppies as would have been recommended) and in that the puppies also got coccidia.



Coccidiosis is most common in puppies and kittens less than six months of age or adult animals that are stressed or have a suppressed immune system. (If you are breeding dogs - you should KNOW that.)



Stress and being in an environment with OTHER INFECTED animals are the most common causes of this parasitic infection to develop. It is spread through fecal matter, and is most commonly found in puppies that have contracted the parasite from an adult dogs' feces. The coccidiosis infection is of particular danger for puppies, since their immune systems are still underdeveloped.



Young animals are frequently exposed to their mother's feces (meaning YOU did not clean UP adequately). If the mother is shedding the infective organisms in her feces, then the young animals will likely ingest them and coccidia will develop within their intestines.



I would say any vet (you sued) could make you look like you were running a very UNCLEAN, unhealthy, puppymill TYPE environment. YOU had a LOT to do with the puppies NOT being healthy enough to fight off the infections & worms.



I think you would loose the case & loose your money paid out for YOUR lawyer & have to pay court costs, too. (The vet might be able to sue you - if you said anything disparaging or that cost him/her business.)

Answer 10

The puppies die of parvo. Nothing more. you have no case



You are nothing more then a BYBer who bred their mutt dog so you can sell mutt puppies and never once vaccinated any of them.



" I didn't have the money for the emergency vet. My own vet was also closed. "



Yet you had the money to breed your dog...........................oh wait. You are a BYBer, can't let a silly thing like caring for your mutt puppies and paying a vet bill get in the way of making a profit



"The vet refused to listen to me and insisted on the parvo test.:



Because BYBes always know better then vets and don't like to pay vet bills since it cuts into their profits



"she offered to euthenize the pups for me since we couldn't see them suffer - so the bill was 119.00. when it could have 319.00. "



You refused to vaccinate the puppies, refused to take them to an emergency vet, let them suffer and the only thing you whine about is a vet bill that could have been cheaper becosue you didn't want it cutting into your profits. Typical BYBer



The only thing you did to help the puppies was an over the counter wormer which likely killed them. And one puppy had Coccida that was never treated and you let it die



You let the puppies die due to your refusal to take them to a vet until it was too late, used over the counter worm meds with are ineffective and even lethal and all you can do is whine how the vet ripped you off.............



The dog is clearly not up to date on any vaccine and the puppies were never treated properly and allowed to die. Pretty typical BYBer



OP is likely going to breed the poor dog again, produce more ill bred mutt puppies to sell, not take any of them to a vet and let them die as wll

Answer 11

I think you need to reconsider breeding your dog, since you obviously don't know that you're supposed to start deworming puppies at a very young age, and continue the treatments every few weeks for the first few months of their lives. The vet probably didn't want to pursue further diagnostics because you didn't have the money for the care that they needed. Another reason to not breed. If you can't put money back in case of emergencies, don't bother breeding. Your dogs' "property values" are not just reflected by breed alone. If you're a good breeder (which apparently you're not), the value will rise. Do your dogs a favor and get them fixed. And get yourself fixed as well.

Answer 12

You are breeding dogs and don't know enough to properly worm a dam? No wonder they died! I imagine there were a few hundred other things you "couldn't afford" or didn't research about proper puppy care.



Spay your dog.



NO there was NO WAY to save your puppies from your OWN ignorance and being too cheap to take them to the proper vet as soon as they needed it. Your BYB dogs are not worth more than the cost of their first shots + worming that you never even bothered to give them.

Answer 13

'I didn't have the money for the emergency vet'



This tells me you are not a responsible breeder at all. Any responsible breeder has a fund for this.



'they have a property value attached to them'



not really as purebred Siberian huskies are available at my local ASPCA, Human Society, PAWS and city pound to include puppies for between a 50 and 150 adoption fee



'think I may have a case against that vet for not doing her job?'



not at all! and if you don't have the money for an emergency vet you won't have the money for an attorney to sue for damages



did you have a necropsy on even one puppy? a necropsy costs money, you take the dead puppy to another vet, in a different area and get a necropsy done if you suspect malpractice



you have no evidence at all and your question reeks of a backyard breeder or basement breeder

Answer 14

Sue for what? The cost to euthanize puppies that were dying anyways? You should have had the funds for an emergency vet before you even planned to breed. No, poorly bred purebred dogs do not have much "property value". Nor do you stand a case to sue for the loss of puppies that were dying anyways.

Answer 15

You don't have a case, you had some sick pups, it happens. The vet did everything they felt was right and within the law.... Far as the pups being dead, you said it was a lapse in flea treatment... Isnt that YOUR fault?

Answer 16

Have a case for what? The dogs got parvo from the breeder. Ask a lawyer if you have a case.

Answer 17

Let me get this straight, you bred a dog with THREE kinds of parasites and you want to sue the vet?

Answer 18

I beleive you could sue the vet for losing money and having to go through that.