ASDA- American Shepherd Dog registration, what do you think?

Question

I don't really intend to carry this out, because of lack of time and young age, but i think its a cool idea, suggestions or creative criticism please!
All of the following information is written in present perspective, although it does not exist... yet.

ASDA
The ASDA is the American Shepherd Dog Association. It is a collection of 18 dog breeds, listed below.

Dog Breeds included in the ASDA:
Australian Cattle Dog
Australian Shepherd
Bearded Collie
Beauceron
Belgian Malinois
Belgian Sheepdog
Belgian Tervuren
Border Collie
Bouvier des Flandres
Briard
Canaan Dog
Collie
German Shepherd Dog
Old English Sheepdog
Polish Lowland Sheepdog
Puli
Shetland Sheepdog
Swedish Vallhund

All dogs belonging to the ASDA must be atleast 13 inches at the withers*. All dogs will be judged in accordance to their AKC breed standard. Their are three levels a dog belonging to the ASDA may reach. Only dogs born of ASDA parents may be ASDA registered.

* Swedish Vallhund's measure from 12.5 to 13.5 inches at the whithers, this breed is an exception.

Level 1: Pedigree
All dogs wishing to be registered with the ASDA must have parents who have all three levels of registraion. Any dog that can prove its pedigree has a level one registration.

level 2: Conformation
After the age of seven months any ASDA registered dog has the opportunity to find an ASDA OR AKC judge and have their dog judged according to the standards for their breed. Any dog that has a level one registration (Pedigree) and is judged to be of good standard may continue on to level three registration.

Level 3: Shepherd
Any dog who has both Level 1 and Level 2 registration are open to participate in the yearly herding challenges offered by the ASDA. A dog who passes certain herding challenges may receive this level conformation.

Level + :Health
One a year every year dogs must be vet checked for sickness and disease. Any dogs carrying a disease which can be passed to its pups or to the other breeding dog, will have its registration completely void until it can be proven that the disease is not present in the dog. This level is renewed every year and any dog who intends to breed must have it.

Only after receiving ALL FOUR levels of registration, Pedigree, Conformation and Registration will the offspring of an ASDA registered dog be able to be registered with The ASDA.


The whole point of the ASDA would be to promote the integrity of herding breeds by demanding they both comply to the breed standards and can herd. This continues the original purpose, and looks of the breed.

When the registration starts, I will obviously need to allow any AKC registered dogs to join.

The point of judging the dogs is so that they will comply with the standards of the herding breeds, which the ASDA is trying to save.
The ASDA would be a purebred registration that required both herding and judging of purebred dogs, in order to promote the integrity of herding breeds, while still using them for their original use. Mutts and mixed breeds would absolutely not be accepted, because it would in some ways encourage the breeding of mixed breeds, which the ASDA in against. The whole point of the registration levels is to make it so that only the best dogs have puppies; this prevents extra puppies AND means that all registered puppies have guaranteed health and excellent breeding lines.

Answer 1

As a GSD breeder, I don't see any value in it as you've outlined it, apart from perhaps as an income generator for the entrepreneur who owns the register.



Nor do I see the slightest justification for including the Vastgotaspests/Valhund but excluding the almost-identical Corgis.

Were you to go ahead you would have to decide early on a logical way to establish which breeds are "in" and which "out". Which will put you torn between

(a) the FCI's established system for breed acceptance,

(b) the "determined to be independent" attitude of the AKC's system, and

(c) several accepted-by-farmers "breeds" that have no official recognition.

However, it looks as though you might do well to consider separating the breeds into 3 or 4 categories according to their primary task:

• herders of ovines (sheep, goats)

• herders of bovines (cows, deer)

• guards of ovines

• guards of bovines



For establishing that a pooch is actually representative of its breed, go study the Breed Survey system as used by breeders and owners of genuine GSDs - in North America it is operated by the GSSCC, the USCA, and the WDA.

A summary of the pre-entry requirements is:

#1: Must be in the country's Breed Registry

#2: Must have official hip and elbow certificates

#3: Must have a show grading certificate of "Good" or better

#4: Must have an Endurance Dog qualification (basically, a timed 12 miles/20km trot)

#5: Must have a trainability-plus-courage qualification - for GSDs that means first obtaining the BH (a "street safe" test from which CGC probably got its ideas) then going on to qualify in either HGH (herding + courage) or SchH (obedience + tracking + courage)



Being eligible to enter doesn't necessarily mean that the entrant will obtain a classification.

Each entrant is gaited, measured, gun tested, described (much as with a specialist show critique), and a 2 page report filled out (contact [e-mail] if you want to see a scan of a report). There are 3 possible outcomes:

● BS.Cl.1 (KKl.I in German) = "Well above average. Recommended for breeding", available to GSDs that fit within every limit in the FCI Standard (see http://www.fci.be/nomenclatures.asp?lang=en&sel=0 for the REAL Standard of every actually recognised breed; normally the FCI accepts only the Country of Origin Standard, but where none exists - as with the Iberian Collie now know as The Australian Shepherd - then the Country of Development Standard is accepted) and whose ancestry indicates no serious risks.

● BS.Cl.2 (KKl.II in German) = "Above average. Approved for breeding", available to GSDs no more than 1cm outside the height limit and with no more than 1or 2 minor tooth faults, and so on, with only minor risks indicated by the pedigree (in Yank terms that might be that the pooch is OFA Fair instead of OFA Excellent or OFA Good).

● Fail.



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Among the flaws in your scheme is that most of the top sheep dogs and cattle dogs from "DownUnder" are instantly ineligible - the breeders and users of the NZ Heading Dog (aka the Eye Dog) and the NZ Huntaway declined to accept NZKC's offer to establish a Breed Registry for them - THEY know that acceptance as a show dog and just-a-pet ruins every working breed (whether herding or hunting or guarding), taking the emphasis off functionality and putting it onto show points and "cuteness". A high proportion of breeders and users of the Australian Cattle Dog and the Australian Kelpie similarly refuse to have anything to do with a kennel club.



Another is that it just adds to the disunity in the NAmerican canine scene, producing yet another splinter group.



Far better is to operate as the GSD Council of Australia does. That body had first to work on politicians in order to get the bans on GSDs lifted - most GSD people are aware that GSDs were not allowed to be imported into Australia from 1929 to 1972, but not all are aware that it wasn't until Xmas Eve 1976 that Western Australia allowed non-neutered GSDs within its borders. Its more recent coup, in conjunction with the Rottweiler groups, was persuading a couple of state KCs in 1996 & 97 to apply registration limitations, and then having the ANKC announce that as of May 1999 no litter of GSDs or Rotties can be registered unless both parents:

#1: Are in the Breed Registry with an allowable coat colour

#2: Possess official scores for hip and elbow dysplasia

#3: Either possess an official haemophilia-negative certificate or have a purely Australian-bred pedigree, if a GSD litter (they quickly weeded out the few haemophilia lines they'd imported, and for decades since have produced no further haemophiliacs).

None of THAT could have been accomplished if the breeders & owners had been disunited.

The GSDCAustralia is taking a very light touch regarding SchutzHund, because of the historical attitude of politically-powerful graziers towards the GSD breed, and because the ANKC displays on its web-site that it will ban anyone known to participate in anything where dogs bite.



Another example of the power of unity, this time among a section of Yank owners of GSDs, is that the AKC was persuaded, a couple of years ago, to accept SchH, albeit under a Yank name.



I consider that a far more useful approach would be to act as a lobby group to have the breed clubs of ALL the herding breeds unite to persuade the AKC that

(A) All herding/droving breeds should be in a Pastoral" or "Sheep & Cattle" group, and the Standards issued by the AKC will be those accepted by the FCI.

(B) All those breeds should have restrictions as to which parents can have their litters registered. (I'm confident that the SPCA & other humane societies and the rescue groups would thoroughly approve of restrictions that make it impossible for lazy imbeciles to pump out litters of barely-recognisable "purebreds" and get AKC registration for their pups and thus be able to charge prices close to what stock from dedicated breeders merits!)

Once those restrictions based on ancestry, the Standard, and "health certificates" have become well-accepted, it will be easier to petition to have a requirement for both parents to possess an appropriate "performance certificate", with HGH being an obvious one for sheep-herding breeds and IPO (the FCI's version of SchH) being an obvious one for guarding breeds.



Don't expect the AKC to be enthusiastic about the concept - each restriction reduces the number of litters from which it can collect registration fees, and KCs around the world are already hurting financially as a result of the downturn in registered breeding (the fad for unregisterable "designer dog" cross-breeds is only part of the problem) and in show entries.



From fans of the UKC I get the impression that you'd get a better response there, but the UKC is a dead end with no possibility of ever being recognised by the international canine community, so your efforts must go to your country's national KC.



In whatever form you choose to go ahead, aim to be NOT a rival to the AKC but a forum where fanciers of pastoral breeds can develop a system then negotiate with AKC to either accept the plans in toto or set "you" up as an AKC sub-committee to further develop the proposal.

Les P, owner of GSD_Friendly: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSD_Friendly

"In GSDs" as of 1967

Answer 2

"Only after receiving ALL FOUR levels of registration, Pedigree, Conformation and Registration will the offspring of an ASDA registered dog be able to be registered with The ASDA."



The above part, is the only part I don't agree with. I think for this to be successful, the puppies should not be automatically fully registered with ASDA They should only get Level 1 registration, then as they mature, they too would have to go through all the other levels. That way you would better protect the integrity, otherwise you might get people that buy the ASDA pups, but never use them for herding, but just be able to say I have a dog that is AKC and ASDA registerd.



Oh, also this part, "When the registration starts, I will obviously need to allow any AKC registered dogs to join."

Why? Instead of allowing all AKC registered dogs to join, make them go through all the levels first, that way you don't have bad examples of the breed, just like AKC does.

Answer 3

Is there are reason you've chosen not to include Samoyeds and Rottwiellers?



Edit: I think its a fantastic idea.



Editx2: AKC allows both Samoyeds and Rotts to title in herding. http://www.akc.org/events/herding/eligible_breeds.cfm



http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RG9001.pdf



Editx3: I would go with the FCC's Breed Standard- more international in scope and more comprehensive than AKC's or many of the AKC breed "parent" clubs (who are part of the reason why "show" dogs have lost their working ability).



I've never bred a Samoyed that didn't have an AHBA herding title. I know a LOT of Sams who have herding titles. Every year at the Samoyed Nat'l Specialty there is a herding instinct test. Samoyed breeders are VERY committed to retaining the herding instinct and ability in their dogs.

Answer 4

Yeap, good luck but it is a reinvention of the wheel and for what real purpose? There are a lot of 'specific' type organizations like this that I have seen come and go over the years - they usually are simply used for glorification and puppy sales gimmicks but hey, maybe the exception to the rule, huh? :) There IS no 'guarantee' of health or breeding lines dear... the Europeans keep harping on that in their FCI stuff but essentially they do mandated minimums and usually are corrupt even in that... well, almost always actually. Idealistic and that is fine but just seen it too many times be used for self-promotion and people make erroneous assumptions that it means something about the dogs being promoted.

Answer 5

There is already the American Herding Breeds Association. Why so we need your group. The border collie club in my area holds herding competitions that are open to all breeds. My samoyed had been in several of their trials and although he has never won, he always beats some of the less experienced BCs. Its great that you are interested in herding, but you are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Answer 6

I highly advise against white shepherds. Every one I have met (upwards of a dozen individuals) has developed severe behavioral or health problems as an adult. Its not the fault of the breeder or owner; this is a rare trait linked to personality and physical flaws. I hope you can afford that $700 as well as the $2000 in vet or legal bills you will need. (two of the dogs I have met have been euthanized for aggression since)

Answer 7

What about dogs who are herding dogs and are not yet accepted into AKC or ASDA? How does a dog get accepted?

Answer 8

The only point I would make - the breed standards are from the parent breed club, *not* the AKC.

Answer 9

I think it sounds really cool.



I would want my dog in it.

Answer 10

very nice