Dog section:: do alpha rolls work?

Question

whats the purpose of an alpha roll?? not planning to ever use it just want to know

Answer 1

An alpha roll attempted by an abusive idiot, who was incapable of training the dog, so wanted to demonstrate brute force to make the dog submit to it's leader could result in a bite from a dominant or weak nerved dog & would teach a mentally stable dog to be handler shy.



Teaching a dog to lie flat is simply an extension of the down & can be accomplished with motivational training, which means the dog is working in partnership with its handler to fix an action in the dog's mind to a command.



The reward must be high value & keeps the dog continuously occupied, while tipping to take their mind off it. If the dog struggled a lot, I stop & move on to a different training exercise. Dogs thrive when they have their mind worked with training exercises because it's satisfying behavior & the flat command is simply another training exercise.



When a dog had major surgery which required regular cleaning & dressing, it could be accomplished at home without having to take the dog to the vet for sedation because he had learned to stay flat & still for 10 to 15 minutes.

Answer 2

Anyone who has actually observed dogs in a pack situation knows that the "alpha roll" is a bunch of hooey.



The person credited with originally popularizing the technique, Job Michael Evans, later recanted.

Answer 3

this was popular many years ago. When scientists first started studying wolf behavior, they threw a bunch of adult, unrelated wolves in a pen. There were fights, and it was believed that the alpha wolves were slamming the less aggressive wolves on their backs to establish dominance. Dog trainers jumped all over this and started telling pet owners to slam their dogs on their backs for all kinds of infringements. Some dogs figured out what the crazy humans wanted, but many others fought back, or suffered the abuse and didn't learn anything.



Now that scientists have studied wolves more closely, they've realized that wolf packs are actually family units, and the parents are the ones in charge, just as with human families. If wolves argue, one will sometimes put themselves on their back to show appeasement (this is very different from being slammed on one's back, please note). After a number of people were injured, the Monks of New Skete removed the alpha roll stuff from newer editions of their books, and modern dog trainers do not recommend this dangerous technique at all. There are many other, more gentle and understandable ways to change dog behavior.



Here's some information from modern scientists on dominance and the alpha roll

http://www.askdryin.com/dominanceindogs.php

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/news/iwmag/2008/winter/alphawolf.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU

Answer 4

http://leecharleskelleysblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/proper-way-to-do-alpha-roll.html



This gentleman explains it so much better than I ever could.

And the descriptions given by some of the "real" dog trainers who answered this question are NOT the "alpha roll" but something else entirely, which works for them. There is nothing wrong with teaching a dog to lay quietly on its side. That is not an "alpha roll". That is training.



As far as the ones who think that what is described in the above link is working for them, well.....if you think so, good for you!

Answer 5

The purpose of an "alpha roll" is to assert dominance; it is supposed to tell your dog that you are in control and it has to follow you.



As to if it works... sort of. Its affects are neither consistent nor always desirable.



A lot of the training theory that centers around the concept of "dominance" and "alpha behavior" stemmed from short term studies of wolf packs. This translates into bad science. Researchers did observe a lot of aggressive behavior in wolf-pack alphas (the entire eating first, going through spaces first, getting the best spots, alpha rolls, etc). The problem was that these sorts of alphas seldom remain in power for long; they are cruel tyrants that rule for a time by physical might but are not good for the pack and so are usually disposed. Sometimes violently (this has not been directly observed, but it has appeared that a few tyrannical alphas have been "assassinated" by other members of the pack).



Long term studies of both wolves and dogs have revealed that alphas tend to clever dogs, not violent ones. The dog that can control resources and mediate disputes is the one will become a long-ruling alpha. This does not mean that the alpha eats first, or vigorously controls what belongs to it. Like with human society, a good dog leader enhances the functioning of the pack in general.



Thus, when a human conducts an "alpha roll," they can get results. That is because the human is being a cur and bullying the dog into obedience. This might last (since usually the power gap between owner and pet is wide enough that the pack can't overthrow them), or it might not.



A better strategy for asserting one's dominance is through simple benevolence and training. For example, training a dog to not take food until given permission is a great tool. This has the immediate benefit of preventing the dog from potentially eating something harmful, and it helps establish you as the pack leader. One doesn't need to pretend to eat a dog's food when the dog won’t even eat it unless you give the okay. Same with going outside; if you make the dog wait until you give it permission to go through a door, you are preventing the dog from accidentally running outside and getting hurt, and you are teaching it that you are in command. At that point, it doesn't matter if you go first or second (though since the point is to make sure the coast is clear, you'll probably usually go first, but it isn't necessary or even good to always do so).



Both of those simple tricks (and other trained behaviors) teach your dog self control, creating a happier, better socialized pooch. An alpha roll might get a dog to obey you, maybe, but it does so by being a bully. The dog isn’t much better off for it, which means that you (you in the general sense, not you-the-question-asker) don’t really deserve to be the alpha.

Answer 6

Only a moron would alpha roll a dog...I've done it before...because like most people, I'm a moron! If you have a nylon choker, or dominant dog collar on a dog, there'd be no need to alpha roll them. BUT stuff happens and if you end up with a dog coming after you it's better to roll him before he bites you. Which isn't a guarantee, you could still very well get bitten attempting it.



***Edit: Chaos and Launi, still a fantastic way to get bitten. If your dog is too excited to listen to you when you tell it to sit/stay or down/stay you don't need an alpha roll, you need to train your dog better. That situation is one where a correction should be given, not some BS alpha roll. If the alpha roll worked, Launi wouldn't still get hyper and become disobedient. Results speak louder than words and silly theories!

Answer 7

[A Dog's Life] hasn't a CLUE what alpha behaviour is - I suspect that he/she is a macho idiot. He acts exactly like an uppity beta. And he's SUCH an expert trainer that he writes "Half of the walk is spent healing at my side" - I'd rather a dog didn't NEED to heal, let alone have to do it while out walking. He can't even tell the difference between your "alpha rolls" and his "alpha role"!



The term "alpha roll" is due to a misconception. Only macho idiots even USE the term nowadays.

It's origin is the inguinal presentation that a subordinate pooch does to appease a superior that it has offended. It consists of VOLUNTARILY rolling 3/4s onto its back and raising a leg or two to expose its belly & throat. It often - especially with pups - includes "paying tribute" by producing a tiny dribble of urine. The alpha then sniffs, possibly urinates on or beside the inferior, kicks a bit of dirt around, and walks confidently away. The subordinate wisely stays there until it is QUITE sure that the alpha has departed.

Whereas the macho idiot thinks that forcibly hurling a pooch onto its back and demonstrating greater strength is achieving the same thing! Idiots, idiots, idiots! Only weak-natured pooches endure it. A strong natured dog punishes the idiot - after all, the idiot has put himself off-balance by leaning over & bending down; and even standing erect no human can react faster than a dog can! You'll find plenty of macho idiots with serious bite-marks! My only regret is what happens to their dogs afterwards.



The members of my group who use GSDs to look after their sheep wouldn't DREAM of attempting to force an alpha roll - but Nicky (who belonged to one of them until he died) was mentally strong enough to stop a bulldozer that attempted to cross the day's boundary patrol line, and sneaky enough on another occasion to train a kids' baseball team to have some run the patrol line for him, others pat him, and some to bring him bowls of water.

The members of my group who use GSDs for S&R work wouldn't DREAM of attempting to force an alpha roll.

The Queen in my group, who has several times represented the USofA in the World SchutzHund championships and been the team's captain, wouldn't DREAM of attempting to force an alpha roll.



Get the picture?

It is a voluntary thing done by one dog for another dog.

Or it is a stupidly dangerous thing attempted by macho idiots.



BTW - some of my bitches mimic an alpha roll to tell me they WOULD like their chest rubbed. They also reckon they have got me well-trained to supply them tidbits of cheese, canned salmon, canned beetroot, meat-paste, peanut butter, KFC bones, fried chips when they sit ostentatiously.

I've never attempted to play with their food. But any dog that dares take the meat I've given to its neighbour gets hounded into a corner and that stolen food taken off it and returned to its rightful eater. And when a rib bone gets caught across the roof of a dog's mouth, jammed between its P4s, I have no trouble whatsoever opening its mouth and levering the bone out - my dogs KNOW that what I do is for their own good.

I don't need to try to PROVE that I am the alpha - my dogs just KNOW that I am because of my calmness & consistency & fairness.



[Thought]:

Update your terminology. Most of the examples you gave are of uppity betas, not alphas. An alpha is a NATURAL leader. An uppity beta is one who bullies others. I once had a bit.ch come back for a spot of manners training. She made the mistake of snapping at my true alpha bit.ch - and was terrorised all the way down the hill and into her kennel, without a drop of blood being spilled.

In the army, alphas DON'T get killed by their own troops, but uppity betas DO, whenever one of the troops thinks he can get away with it.

Les P, owner of GSD_Friendly: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSD_Friendly

"In GSDs" as of 1967

Answer 8

These ridiculous "alpha rolls" were made famous by a television actor who "trains" dogs on his show.



Alpha rolls are not necessary for the average dog. The very few dogs who may need to be dominated to that extent, only need the alpha roll done on them once if done correctly. Its to show the dog the person is in charge and they're badly understood to the point I've seen people talking about using them on very young puppies to show them who's boss!



I've never needed to use one in decades of owning dozens of dogs because my dogs know who's in charge and don't feel the need to challenge that.

Answer 9

NO ...completely idiotic



It doesn't work, its completely useless and the worst thing to do to a dog, it has no effect what so ever and its moronic, any trainer suggest this isn't a good trainer

Answer 10

I don't think so.

Actually as a joke, we decided to try and be all "Dog Whisperer" and alpha roll my 70 pound Doberman.................................yeah, it didn't work................................. lol.

That guy knows how to throw his weight around and I mean I weight about 130 pounds and I still couldn't get him flat on the ground, and even when I did, I couldn't get him off his stomach.



Maybe it works for little yappy guys? I have no idea. I honestly don't even know what it is supposed to accomplish.



ADD: After reading Chaos' and Launi's answers - I can say this now:

I think this "alpha roll" thing is different in everyone's head. When I thought of it, I pictured a dog on his back. Seemingly, this is not the case.

Now, I don't find that I would need to assert that kind of dominance over MY dog specifically. Although, sometimes when a few screws go loose in his head and he starts literally running around in circles jumping on all the furniture, I have put him down on his side until he calms down. Didn't know that was an "alpha roll" I just noticed that was the only way I could get his breathing to slow down and for him to relax his sh*t. Making him sit all day sure didn't do anything, so that's what I would do with him and sometimes he would start falling asleep lol.

Answer 11

It's really quite simple, dogs do not alpha roll each other. The basis on which the whole concept is founded is terribly flawed.



An alpha roll is nothing but a mis-guided fear tactic in my opinion. If you have an already submissive dog, you will succeed in "dominating" the dog - big deal. If you have a dominant dog, you will succeed in getting some pearly whites to the face - sucks to be you.



Really, when it comes down to it, I don't have a use for an "alpha role" or anything like it. I don't feel it accomplishes anything.



I guess if one were to consider what Launi is talking about an "alpha roll", I might find something similar to be useful. I will do what I call a "lay down and stay there until you can get your sh*t together". It's really more of a down/stay than an "alpha roll", though - I only require "kicked" hips on a down, not laying on their sides.

Answer 12

People can misuse just about any theory you want to name. There are a number of ways to get a dog to do what you want it to, or to prevent it from doing something you don't want it to. I think you have to use various methods in various situations. Let's keep in mind that Cesar Millan is dealing with dogs with pretty severe behaviour problems, whose owners have been unable to do the most basic things with their dogs, and whose dogs are doing outrageous things. These people simply have no idea what makes a dog do what it does, and no idea how to get a dog to want to do what you want. I've had dogs for a long time and have had only one with anything approaching such problems, which dog came to me as an adult with those problems. I eventually sorted her out, and with what I know now could do the same thing much faster. This article talks about force and coercion, which doesn't sound much like what I do with my dogs. I do establish that I'm the boss around here, but I have never used any physical force to do it. Pardon me, I forgot. I did once, about 20 years ago, with the above-mentioned difficult dog. It worked, too. She became a much different dog after that and for the 10 years more that she lived I never needed to do such a thing again. This article implies that dominant behaviour is a case of physically forcing a dog to submit, when it's much more subtle than that. Edit: I Call Lizard makes some very good points. I agree completely.

Answer 13

I don't believe in them.



I think it's an out dated move that is not only dangerous to the dog, but the handler, and anyone near them. It's also a good way to ruin any trust the dog had in you.



On top of that, the majority of people that roll their dogs do not do it properly. So that only increases how dangerous and ineffective it is.



add:



When I adopted an aggressive lil' terrier I got a trainer that suggested alpha rolling him when he got worked up. After having to basically crawl on my stomach and beg this dog to forgive me, I will never do it again. Yes, he was a little terror at times, but he was terrified when I did that to him. Not only that, but it increased his aggression and made his problems WORSE. I don't use just positive reinforcement but I don't think using OUT DATED and proven WRONG theories isn't right either.



To each their own...I guess. I strongly disagree with alpha roll based on what I have seen in my own dogs and what I have witness idiots doing at the dog park. It's a very bad idea imho.

Answer 14

we recently brought a puppy into the house and my dog went over and did the alpha roll. the puppy went on its back and my dog did a small growl but wasnt being aggressive and after that they played well knowing who was the boss. i have never done the alpha roll but i have put my dog on her side cos shes a puppy she can get really cheeky and needs to be calm for a minute but i she doesnt mind and knows its cos shes been nuaghty. after that i call her and she jumps up and gets petted, i dont think its a bad thing but i think maybe some people do it wrong or are agressive to the dog, with me she knows im not and we are still friends. i train my dog that way and each to there own.

Answer 15

I have a bit of a divided stance on this one. In all honestly I believe it is overused or used inappropriately on most dogs. There are/have been situations I have used an alpha roll in the past and yes it worked FOR ME. No I do not mean pinning them by their necks with bellys in the air. I believe Launi and a few others explained it fairly well.



My mom has a Bichon that is just nasty about his grooming. He is completely full of himself. It is not a fear thing! No groomer would touch him without tranq...he would bite to draw blood. I do all of his grooming now and he accepts it happily. Unfortunately, biting me and an alpha roll, is what it took. I tend to think these lil spoiled dogs need it more than a large dog who is typically not babied like its smaller counterparts. It doesn't take a little dog too long to get the idea they run the show and can scare people with stupid little antics. Sometimes a forced alpha roll does the trick.



My biggest caution here is to people who really cannot read a dog. So many "think" they can but they cannot. This is where the problems come in. I agree that forcing an alpha roll is NOT what wild dog packs do. The submissive animal will assume this position on its own, often times with just a glance from the alpha when he is out of place. If you cannot properly read the situation, Yup, you will either get bite OR make your dog a bigger mess than what he already is. A truly aggressive dog will not "accept" an alpha roll forced upon it.



Good example of inappropriately reading a dog. A very good friend of mine consulted me about her Dobie who she is doing agility training with. She cannot go further with agility unless she can get her dog over her fear of other dogs. I am helping her with this dog and I was very irritated at what the instructor suggested. This is a 3yr old Dobie who is fearful of other dogs so she will attack them. Totally fear aggressive motivated. In all other aspects of life she is completely fine...just other dogs that are close to her size she will just snap and attack. (She does live with a min pin and a Lab with no problems tho) You guessed it, her instructor showed her and suggested the alpha roll on this dog. After talking to my friend about it I strongly advised against it. 2 reasons. She herself is not comfortable doing it...therefore the dog will feed off of her insecurity...and I do not believe an already FEARFUL dog should be dominated. It will simply add to her fearfulness. This particular pooch was brought into her home at 6mos old with no prior socialization. To add to it, she had parvo so that further put socialization with other dogs on hold. She is currently making astounding progress simply by reconditioning and lots of walks and exposure to other non confrontational dogs who ignore her.



This is the reason I do not like the alpha rolls. I currently have a pack of 8 lil Cavaliers. I could not even imagine on scenario this would be appropriate with my breed. They are already WAY TOO SOFT. Admittingly, too soft of a breed for me persay, but perfect for my family on a whole.



In the past, I often times rescued would be euthanasias from the vet clinic (with owners permission) These dogs would range with problems from being over excited, hyper, spases to pretty extreme dominance issues. I have always had real good luck working with these dogs. I cannot for the life of me remember ONE instance I purposely used an alpha roll. I have such a strong, dominant, leader type,personality that they tend to feed off of that energy and simply submit to me without forcing it.



So to answer your question, when properly executed by someone who knows and can properly read dogs, I believe they can work. But in more instances than not, a typical dog owner should NOT attempt this at all.

Answer 16

No they don't work



There 'purpose' ( isn't one) however for those that use it, they say it tells the dog the human is in charge..........



If they 'trained' the dog to understand that a human is a pack leader which is all done very easily as the human is the provider of all the dogs resources, so doesn't need 'training' as such to understand this..all it tells the dog is that the owner/handler is a bully and doing this to a dog will revoke a reaction in some form from the dog.............often anxiety so it depends on the dogs temperament how it reacts...however not a good situation to have a dog anxious of it owner/handler or training which should all have a positive side and that creates an willingness in the dog to learn and train.

Answer 17

No, they do not work and will only cause more problems with an aggressive dog.



1st, Dogs and other canines do not roll each other over. The submissive dog rolls on its own as a sign of submission to a more dominant dog. The dominant dog does nothing but be dominant in body language and vocalizations.



2nd, Forcing a dog over on its back is a physical attack on the dog. Most dogs will take it from their owners because we are not dogs. There is always the possibility that the dog will strike back.



3rd, As the roll is an attack on the dog, why should the dog trust you in the future? Any physical punishment diminishes the trust between owner and dog. The best relationships are those which both parties trust each other.



I hope this provides some solid reasons why you should not attack your dog.

Answer 18

Everyone that said that you roll the dog onto it's back is completely wrong, and are misunderstanding this technique. With a PROPER, "alpha roll", you do NOT roll them onto their backs and hold them down and certainly not by the throat, you simple place them on their side with their feet facing away from you. You place on hand on the rear and another on either the neck or head, or you could even hold the collar. You hold them down till they relax in all their muscles and submit and then release. If the behavior persists when the dog is up, you do it again till the dog gets it. We DO teach this at our training center, some of the trainers have titled more dogs than people can ever imagine, some are also AKC certified judges, conformation/obedience/rally/agility etc. Are they bad trainers? HELL NO



People who are saying this makes dogs fear you are ignorant, my dogs don't fear me, cause yeah coming towards me wiggling their whole bodies sure is them being fearful. Greeting me everyday with wagging tails and kisses is so them being fearful. If my dogs were fearful and did not trust me, trust me they would not do that. Of course my dogs trust me, and doing the "alpha roll" does NOT diminish that trust. How dare people say we are bullies or our dogs don't love us or trust us, that is very offensive.



Yes I agree with Launi that this should only be done when you have already consulted a pro-trainer, and have learned to do it correctly. This should NEVER be done with a highly aggressive dog, that is a one way ticket to being bit.



It DOES work but only if you know what you are doing



Edit- On a side note, just because we are educated enough to choose not to do 100% positive reinforcement does not make us bad people or abusive. Do I use positive reinforcement? Heck yeah I do when the time is appropriate and with the right dog. Do I use it all the time? Over my dead body, it will be a cold day in hell before I use 100% positive reinforcement.



You can not use 100% positive reinforcement with a bully it won't work. They are too bull-headed and stubborn, if they are not corrected they will walk all over you. I am not saying that you can not use positive reinforcement at all, i am just saying that it won't work if you only use it. This is coming from an owner/breeder of bull-headed bullies.



The "alpha roll" is just another correction technique.

Answer 19

Well now there seems to be more against than for this. Let me say first and foremost: NO PERSON SHOULD ATTEMPT THIS WITHOUT THE TRAINING OF A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL IN THIS FIELD.



Now that is done the 'alpha roll' is not an actual 'roll'. The dog does NOT go on it's back. That is highly dangerous for the dog. It is put on the side. It should only be used in very strict circumstances and with complete confidence you are reading the dog correctly. IF you read the dog wrong then doing the submission technique (I prefer that term) will get you hurt.



I use it rarely. I will give you an example of when I use it and how I do it.



Launi is not quite 2 years old and has a tendency to get overly excited (which is fueled by my daughter's Golden who is 8 months old and a nut case) anyway, when she gets this way and I cannot bring her down with a simple sit and stay I do a 'submission'.



I give the command sit/down. She will immediately go on her side. I use the correct finger placements and once she is calming (again, watching body language) I stand up. She stays in that position until every muscle in her body relaxes. Once she has done this I give a release and she is over the excitement and calmed.



I have NEVER forced the submission. I would never use it on a dog I do not know and certainly would not use this on anyone else's dog because I am NOT a trainer.



Using it on MY dogs is my choice and I know when it needs to be done.



Horsemad? You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.



ADD: Thank you Chaos!

Answer 20

An alpha roll is a technique used in dog training to discipline a misbehaving dog. It consists of flipping the dog onto its back and holding it in that position, sometimes by the throat. The theory is that this teaches the dog that the trainer is the pack leader (or alpha animal)



Many dogs, not only dominant or aggressive ones, will instinctively try to defend themselves, which can be very dangerous or even fatal to the trainer. Hope this helps x

Answer 21

No, does not work it's just some stuoid gimmick to sell more Cesar Milan dvd's

Answer 22

No, unless you want to be bitten in the face...

Answer 23

if you watch a mother with the puppies she will have respect from them this is the reason why she will put them on there backs

humans who do this will have total respect from their dog it does not hurt the dog at all well only its pride

Answer 24

Dummest thing i've ever heard

Answer 25

"Alpha role" ...hmmmmm what do you mean by this term? I am the Alhpa of my two dogs and very much use the techniques needed to be an alpha.



For example i pretend to eat from their bowl (for no more than 10 secs) and i make them sit and wait. I practice taking away treats and toys WITHOUT them growling. I leave and enter the house before them, including the gate >> they are NOT allowed to charge ahead of me. Half of the walk is spent healing at my side. I take them to training classes where they re taught to listen and respect their human pack.



I have submitted both of them in severe cases, when getting into dog fights and then not listening to us the humans they were put on their side and could not move until we gave the signal. It is not vile or inhumane and the dogs get it more than us insanely shrieking "NOOO". I believe i do not go OTT and am not left right and center putting them on their side, i haven't done it on over a year! If done in puppyhood it rarely needs to be practiced when they are older and well adjusted.



ADD: I think you have to be extremely ignorant to suggest everyone who uses the 'alpha role' is a bully and has an anxious dog petrified of their owners. I have a Siberian Husky who supposedly is meant to be awful off-lead, i have submitted her in severe cases and i use Cesar's general training skills.... if she was soo anxious of me as her owners there is no way she would come faithfully bounding back to me off-lead with her tail wagging >> just wouldn't happen especially for a husky. I think people misunderstand the training involved, my dog has her independence and feels safe to roam the house and greet strangers and make those mistakes dogs make, believe me she's not perfect and we are not looking for a 'perfect' dog, i would hate to think that people think just because you watch and agree with Cesar Millan you are a "bully" >>> the proof is in the pudding and as Cesar's pack of dogs are happy and well balanced so are mine.





ADD: I agree with: "Launi...." and you have actually put it a lot better than me! I also dont go around 'submitting' strange dogs also many times it is not necessary with my dogs at all! For example thanks to irresponsible owners who point blank DONT train their dogs at all, my girl was attacked 3 times in puppyhood >>> she is now iffy on lead around dogs >> i DONT submit her however, the training is not about that, that would be stupid and she would loose trust in me, instead i feed her cheese whenever she meets, and see's another dog on leash. I turn her around allow the dog to sniff her bum and her theirs whilst giving her cheese >> shes getting a lot better too. People are clearly very uneducated on the methods used, our trainer supports it and he is a miracle worker, his pack are also happy, healthy and balanced.



"[A Dog's Life] hasn't a CLUE what alpha behaviour is - I suspect that he/she is a macho idiot. He acts exactly like an uppity beta. And he's SUCH an expert trainer that he writes "Half of the walk is spent healing at my side" - I'd rather a dog didn't NEED to heal, let alone have to do it while out walking. He can't even tell the difference between your "alpha rolls" and his "alpha role"!"



What an uneducated, childish answer. Female graduate actually but never mind. My apologizes for scanning the question too quickly but i believe i covered putting the dog on their side which is what modern trainers practice, and i also believed i answered "yes" it does work if done properly. You are a complete cretin - do you suggest i let my dog pull me into the road because they have seen a pigeon!! Half of the walk they get to sniff, walks ahead and investigate; the second half when theyve let their steam off they walk at a quick pace by my side in a more relaxed manner - dogs need boundaries and control. Not to mention to she goes off-lead in a park/forest for an hour everyday and plays with other dogs and gets to go nuts. Like i said: proof is in the pudding, my dogs are happy, healthy, playful, balanced and respectful... thats all i need;)