Okay, all you anti-BYBs out there...how to even start a discussion?

Question

Hoping that this isn't a weird time to post this and that I will get lots of great answers from not only my contacts and TCs but anyone with an opinion...I may repost...

I just left a friend of mine's house. Her son (who is only 2 years younger than myself) was there for the weekend. He lives with his girlfriend in an apartment and is a full time college student, along with having a job. They recently acquired a deaf English bulldog puppy (girlfriend works at a vet's office and this breeder gave it to her for a "deal). They also currently have two other dogs (one of which has just come back to live with my friend most of the time), a cat, two sugar gliders and a tank full of fish. We were all chatting and he mentioned that he want to breed Madden (the deaf bulldog). When I asked him why, he said:

"Because I want to have a male bulldog and she's so brilliant and a great example of her breed, and the vet Autum works for said there wouldn't be a problem breeding her." And I think my head almost exploded with reasons why they shouldn't and I literally bit my tongue to avoid blurting out "But...but...SHE'S DEAF!!" That's a *problem*, right? I'm not just making that up in my head? What vet would tell a kid with THAT many animals and that little amount of time available that breeding her would be fine? There were jsut so many statements in there that I wanted to come back with a counter.

Want a male bulldog? Rescue one or get one from a breeder. Why put your female through that just to get a male? What if she doesn't HAVE any males?

She's brilliant...great! So is mine! There are thousands of brilliant dogs out there...should they be reproducing based on that alone?

She's a great example of her breed...why do you say that? Because she's smart? Because, in stature, she's very close to standard? Doesn't change the fact that you're talking about breeding a deaf dog.

And you have SO LITTLE TIME available to you right now anyway and will continue to be busy for the next 3-4 years (the girl is only about 4-5 months old), what about this appeals to you?

The vet said it would be okay...your vet said *what*?

So..vet techs, vet workers...what would your vet say about this? Is it rare to find a vet that knows his stuff about breeding? Or is it rare to find a vet who *doesn't*?

Breeders...am I wrong? Isn't a deaf dog a MAJOR reason not to have her reproducing? Isn't she clearly NOT a great "example of her breed"?

If you try to talk to a person about not breeding their dog...how do you start the conversation? Do you ask, "Can I play devil's advocate here for a minute?" Do you just come out with all your facts and beliefs? Or do you just not say anything unless someone specifically asks you? Do you just email them articles about breeding responsibly? I don't think I am bold enough to just start running my mouth, especially to someone who may not want to hear that their idea isn't the most intelligent one they've ever had (this kid is, in general, impulsive...but the idea still shocked me because the live-in girlfriend WORKS at a vet's office and I figured she would know about this stuff already), but I would love to get across to him, at some point, in the most respectful way I can, that NO, this is NOT a great idea.

So...breeders, vet workers, all of my contacts out there with fabulous knowledge far great than my own...where do you even start? Or do you just keep your mouth shut to avoid confrontation? Star for me if you think this is interesting...I would LOVE answers from all across the board. Happy Sunday!

Answer 1

Unfortunately vets DON'T know squat about breeding, and this particular vet is also a good example that they will tell their clients what they want to hear just to avoid losing their business. (I mean, breeding a DEAF dog?? Come ON!!)



White boxers are not bred due to the link between the white gene and deafness. Research on this has concluded that breeding white dogs not ONLY increases the likelihood of white offspring (thus increasing the probability of deafness) but ALSO increases the likelihood of deafness in colored offspring as well. The dog you're talking about doesn't just carry the gene for deafness -- it IS deaf. The association between the white gene and deafness occurs in many breeds; not sure about english bulldogs specifically, but I don't see why not.



Does he know how difficult (and EXPENSIVE) it is to breed bulldogs? That they often need c-sections, and even artificial insemination?



http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bulldogs-hereditary-defects.html



Maybe you'd like to show him the "Top 6 Reasons People Give to Breed."

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_top-6-reasons-people-give-to-breed.htm



Definition of a BYB, as told by BoxerWorld:

"The average person that breeds their dog(s)."

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_back-yard-breeder-byb.htm



Add:



FOUND IT!



The English Bulldog IS one of the breeds in which the white gene is associated with deafness.

http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/VetClinNA.htm



Read this forum discussion from BoxerWorld (or show it to your friend) about the genetic issues on breeding white boxers. It's kinda long, but VERY intersting information on the increased risk of deafness from breeding whites.

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34760

Answer 2

Well, ignoring the backyard breeders discussion, I just want to comment on the deaf dog- all depends on WHY the dog is deaf. All white bulldogs are more prone to deafness (along with all white dogs in most breeds where color is more dominant (ie german shepards, and even in cats), something with it being linked genetically. If the sire was not white, you have a good chance of having pups who can hear. Some people still breed the all white animals because they like the look, even though it increases the probability of having a deaf dog.

If she is deaf because of something that happened to her as a puppy (and is not genetically related) there is no reason her pups would end up deaf, and other than that, she may be a good example of the breed.



As I tell everyone (and to be passed on to the owners)- make sure that you have a dog with good conformation and disposition for the breed, and that you have potential homes for the puppies lined up before breeding so you don't end up with unwanted puppies

Answer 3

Backyard breeding is not usually a good idea, for many good reasons, period. I agree with you, but it was just a conversation they were having, and it probably will never happen. I took in a stray cat once and later learned that she was deaf and had feline leukemia virus. I kept her loved her for the rest of her life. It is good that these people took in a pet pet with special needs, but breeding, I don't think so.

Answer 4

A start for you, Sassy! I am so very outspoken and tend to spout off my opinions on breeding whenever the occasion pops up!!! You have stated exactly what I would have suggested that you do. Jump in with both feet, give them good arguments as to why they shouldn't breed, as well as email any and all information that you have access to. Hopefully you can stop these two from breeding this poor dog.

Answer 5

Your main premise is flawed, I'm afraid. That's like telling deaf people not to procreate because their children will be deaf... untrue. Unless the deafness was caused by a hereditary disease, this is not an issue.



However, the other issues you mention are somewhat valid, although the vet may have had no idea how many animals your friend has. Or maybe your friend doesn't consider this an issue. And the breed she wants, purebred, may not show up in a shelter for ages. BUT I'm personally a big fan of shelter dogs (Have one myself) and for rescuing existing dogs instead of creating new ones. But obviously not all people feel this way because there are loads of breeders out there and loads of people buying the breeds. And the chance of a dog not having a male in a little is pretty small. Litters generally have at least one of the opposite sex.



Sounds to me like you're trying to impose your opinions on this person, when there's no cause for that. If you are concerned about the too-many-animals issue, you can say, "Wow, that's going to be a lot of animals. I don't know how you handle all the ones you already have! Have you thought about looking after all those puppies?" But that's really about it. You don't have your research done, I'm afraid, but that c oncern could be valid and that's the only one you can rightfully address.



Just don't be surprised if these people look at you strangely and say, "Mind your own business!" Even if you're doing it because you're concerned.

Answer 6

Just tell them to go to the shelter and look at all the hundreds of LARGE dogs for adoption millions of which will have to be euthanized. There should be a ban on all large dog breeding until this problem goes away.