Why do some people dislike the idea of "designer dogs?"?

Question

Hi there! My apologies if this question sounds ignorant...I am a bit of a noob when it comes to the world of dogs and dog lovers, having grown up in a family where pets were not allowed. When my husband and I decided to get a puppy, I read a bunch of books and internet articles related to dogs and dog care, and I would often come across articles about "designer dogs" like "Labradoodles," "Puggles" etc. who were bred specifically to blend the best genetic traits of both breeds (at least, that was my understanding of it). I didn't really give it too much thought, but I've seen mentions here and there on some of the threads in this site where people have been very opposed to breeding those types of dogs, and I am quite curious but sadly uninformed about it.

I'd appreciate some thoughts/opinions/etc. Thanks :)

Answer 1

Perhaps to look back, the Charles Darwin theory of survival of the fittest would not be there weren’t any cross reproductions among the same species, a group whose members can interbreed. Humans could have been prime-mates still!

It is true. Whether we have pure or cross, we must take care of them. I can leve it this way. would you insult a child who is born from a Asian woman and a black man, just because the child comes from different raises. Hm.. that would be racial discrimination. But who talks for dogs?





As the New Sciencetist Magazine says, "Labradoodles, golden doodles and other designer dogs may be relatively new to the kennel, but dog breeders produce these animals through a decidedly old school approach: Introduce a golden retriever to a poodle and let nature take its course.



But new discoveries in dog genetics could provide dog breeders with far more control in selecting for traits such as size, colour, perhaps even temperament.

Thanks to a fully sequenced dog genome and genetic tools that allow researchers to rapidly scan hundreds of thousands of gene mutations at once, geneticists have uncovered a handful of genes that determine coat colour, variations in size, as well as some congenital diseases.

Elaine Ostrander, a pioneering dog geneticist at the National Human Genome Research Institute in Bethesda Marlyand, reviewed some of these developments this morning at AAAS.



After the talk, another reporter asked Ostrander whether these discoveries could be used to genetically engineer designer dogs, say a miniature golden doodle.



It might be possible, but the American Kennel Club, with whom Ostrander and other dog geneticists work closely to help collect samples, wouldn't go for GE puppies for ethical reasons, she said.



A more acceptable approach would be to use genetic technologies to help decide which dogs to mate, Ostrander says. By sequencing genes known to be related to size, breeders could exert more control over pairings that are usually left to subjective judgment.



Some breeders already use genetic testing to avoid mating dogs that will spawn puppies with congenital diseases. For instance, Labrador retrievers with two mutations in a gene called dynamin-1 suffer from a condition where intense activity causes them to lose nerve control of their hind limbs. Smart breeding could slowly wipe out this mutation over time.



Right now, scientists know of only a handful of genes that exert a substantial effect on dog traits, but this number will certainly grow larger. How long before breeders roll out spotted miniature labradoodles?"

Answer 2

The idea behind the "designer" breeds is appealing. However, due to the way the vast majority of them are bred the idea is complete bullcrap. You can't put a poodle and a golden retriever together to mate and actually honestly claim the puppies WILL have the retriever temperament and WILL NOT shed because genetics simply are not predictable like that. Pick up a high school biology book and flip to the chapter about genetics and reproduction and you'll see what I mean. Add to the fact that the dogs are rarely, if ever, hip tested or tested for genetic congenital conditions they may be carrying and may pass on to puppies and you can see why it rubs some of us the wrong way.



It boils down to one thing--money. See how much a goldendoodle puppy goes for in the classified ads, as high as $1000. The advertiser typically claims the dogs won't shed and will have the retriever temperament. However, unless these dogs have been bred from poodles and retrievers several, several generations back and have been carefully bred over the next several generations for specific qualities like temperament, coat, etc, you can pretty much rest assured your overpriced, untested mutt will be any combination of genes from the parents and may or may not turn out as promised. Note that the breeder probably won't take your adult dog back when it's obvious it will never be what was promised, the breeder probably hasn't tested the breeding pair, and often may not even bother worming or giving the puppies their first round of shots.



It's the difference between breeding for cash, using their dogs (whether they love their dogs or not) as a cash crop, and breeding to improve the health of a breed and to preserve the breed as a whole so it doesn't disappear into obscurity. Show breeders rarely, if ever, profit off their puppies because of the time and money invested in the b*tch, the stud, their medical testing, pregnancy checkups at the vet, emergency c-sections if necessary, and veterinary care for the mother and her nursing pups, not to mention shots, some degree of training, and extensive screening before the pups are placed to ensure the breed is actually right for the buyer and that they actually are up to the task of providing the puppy with what it will need to be happy and well-adjusted.



Some people don't see a problem with it and to a degree I can understand that, but in the end when I can walk into the animal shelter and see "Poodle mix" on at least four kennels it really galls me that somebody can sell that same poodle mix as a puppy for hundreds of dollars without so much as checking to see if the new owner is up to the task of dealing with the traits from either breed the dog may inherit.

Answer 3

The problem with these types of dogs is that genetics does not work that way. When you mix two breeds, you don`t necessarily get the best of both dogs.

What is the best of both dogs anyway? When you mix a lab and a poodle, which traits are you hoping to get? As a fan of Labs, my ideal mix would be more lab, but others may not feel the same.



To go back, the "labradoodle" started when a man tried to mix a Lab and Poodle to create a hypoallergenic service dog. No one wanted a mix, so he started calling it a breed, the "labradoodle". It took off from there. The problem is, he was never successful at reliably breeding the low dander coat of the Poodle into the pups.



He is credited with starting this whole "designer dog" thing although the cockapoo has been around longer.

His story is here

http://www.readersdigest.com.au/content/printContent.do?contentId=43132





When you mix two breeds, you end up with pups that can be any mix of the two breeds. There is no consistant coat, size, temperment, drive, color, etc within even the same litter. It is NOT the best of both breeds. It can be the worst of two breeds, or any mix thereof.



As for a second generation mix, If you take a mix and breed it with the same type of mix (called second generation breeding), you will find that they sort of start to sort themselves out into the original breeds with a few traits of the other breed mixed in, again completey random. Most "designer dog" breeders admit to staying away from this type of breeding because of the wide variation it produces.



Many breeds did originate from mixing breeds. The difference is that they were selectively bred over many many generations for particular traits with a goal in mind until they consistantly appeared, that is, bred true. This takes a strong understanding of genetics and a consitant breeding program. "designer dog" breeders rarely go past a second generation and have no specific goal they are breeding towards.



Here is a link showing the wide variation of the mixes of Labs and Poodles. This site also states that they do not typically go past the second generation as I have mentioned.

http://www.goldendoodles.com/faqs/generations.htm



What it all comes down to is most "designer dogs" are no different than the average mixes in your shelter, only there is someone breeding them intentionally and charging a fortune for it. Many of these breeders tell lies like the one you have heard about getting the best of both breeds. They also make claims of "hybrid vigor" which is untrue (hybrid are a mix of two different species like horses and donkeys create a mule, breeds are NOT different species).

The "labradoodle" you pay $2000 is no different than the Lab/poodle mix in your shelter. That goes for any of the other "designer' mixes you get.



Add-



"Puggles" are the most ironic mix of all, you take a breed with known breathing issues and breed it with a SCENT hound with high energy. LOL.



@Pekesrule - I fully understand where some purebreds came from and addressed it in my answer. It takes many many generations to create a new breed. These "designer" breeders rarely go past the second generation. They will NEVER breed true if that continues.

And these people breeding this dogs do not have a clear vision of what they are producing. What is the ideal size, color, coat, etc? That can vary from one person to another. With purebreds that were once mixes, like the German Shepherd, their work dicated this, form followed function. Their coat was dictated by the weather they worked in, the size was needed to be big enough to do the job, but small enough to be sustainable, even the black back was bred for to help identify the dog among the white sheep.

What function does a puggle have?

As for the breeding for allergy friendly dogs, that did not succeed. The man who started out with that idea abandoned his breeding program. It has continued, but they still have not been able to consistantly produce the low allergy coat of the poodle in these mixes.



I don't believe for a second none of these dogs are in shelters near you. They may not have their fancy name, but they are there.



And for the record, I am not against anything new. I am not even against creating new breeds for a purpose (stress on the purpose), if it is done right. That is with a clear goal and a breeding program to achieve it. I am against mixing two breeds, calling it a new one and charging a fortune for it.



What is the difference between the pug/beagle mix at the shelter and the $1000 "puggle" from a breeder? There is no difference.

Answer 4

1. You do not always get "the best" traits when you breed mixes. Genetics dont work that way. You can possibly get the WORST traits from both breeds, including health issues!



2. These dogs are still just mutts, with fake labels and outrageous price tags. You can find the SAME THING in a shelter for much cheaper.



3. There's no reason to purposly create MORE mutts when there are PLENTY that need homes.. expecially when there's no guarantee that you will get the desired traits you want from a "designer" puppy.

Answer 5

For many animal lovers (myself included), the entire idea of breeding is disgusting. Reasons including:



There are too many animals that need homes as it is, it is quite unethical to intentionally bring more into the world. Supporting it only adds to the demand, and thereby adds to the problem.



Bred animals are man-made rather than having evolved by 'survival of the fittest'; bred for cuteness rather than health, thereby they are very suseptible to health problems, all breeds have their own usual heath issues. (I would recommend getting health insurance for them, they can be extremely costly; which causes them to show up in shelters having been surrendered because people take on the resposibilty and don't follow through with it when i gets rough)



There are a great number (not all) of breeders who have appauling practices (Oprah did a show on puppy mills somewhat recently that gained a lot of attention). Whatever you do, please do not buy an animal from a pet shop; they are the primary customers of these unethical breeders.



If you truly care about animals, the most loving thing to do is to adopt from a shelter. They have amazing animals there (i know, i volunteer at one a few times a week...it's truly heartbreaking). If you are hell-bent on a particular breed, do some internet searching, i'm sure you can find a rescue organization which specializes in them. Designer animals come to shelters quite often, there was a Munchkin cat at our shelter just last week.



Good luck, and i hope you make the right decision.

Answer 6

There is no guarantee of getting "the best genetic traits of both breeds" -- genetics doesn't work like that. "Hybrid vigor" doesn't apply to dogs, who are neither different species, nor as genetically simple as the pea plants upon which the theory was based. Mixed breeds can get any combination of genetic traits, including any genetic disease that both breeds carry.



Intentionally crossing two breeds in the crapshoot hope of getting the best of both is ignorant, and a waste of life...especially when so many mutts already sit in shelters waiting for homes or waiting to die. These dogs aren't being bred for any functional purpose, to fulfill a necessary niche, etc...they are simply being bred to make money.



Add to this the fact that nearly *all* "designer" dogs are the result of two poorly-bred purebreds, and you have thoughtlessly-bred, genetically inferior mixes being sold as "rare" and "hypoallergenic" (very rarely true, BTW) by hucksters for $1500 while some random-bred mutt dies in a shelter because nobody wanted to spend $150 on its adoption fee.



Ethically, it doesn't make much sense.

Answer 7

I think its because designer dogs are just a nice way of saying mutt. I'm not saying mutts are bad most of my pups were mutts and they are sweeter then most pure breeds but that is what designer dogs are. I think there is no reason to spend crazy amounts of money on said dog when you can save one just like it for so much less and you'd be saving a life. So many people think that they wont be able to find it in a pound but the truth is more then half the dogs in there are pure breeds.



That's just my 2 cents and i hoped I helped a little

Answer 8

People like to fuss and complain. They write 'mutt' and 'mongrel' just to be as rude as possible. They don't seem to realize that this is how we got the 'purebreds' we have today. The shih tzu didn't just "happen". The breed was made. People are trying to do the same today like breeding hypoallergenic dogs for the allergy sufferers. The ones who fuss about it say that there are a lot of animals that need homes, why breed more mutts? Well depends on how you define 'mutt' first off. To me a mutt is a dog that you have NO idea what the parents were. Just a mix of many things. That's all we have here in our animal shelters here in my city. Never once has a labradoodle, puggle, shih poo, goldendoodle, peek-a-pom etc etc ended up in a shelter anywhere near here! So I don't understand where they're getting that part from. Basically a hybrid or designer dog is 2 purebred parents - diff. breeds. A lot of people love this because they want something different. I mean isn't that human nature? To want to get something a little different? I mean if we all had to have dalmations, it'd be a boring world - dontcha think? Now I have purebred dogs, but have no problems with hybrids and I also believe in hybrid vigor. Now the little group of hybrid haters will thumbs down my answer, but I couldn't care less. I encourage people to buy a 'different' dog. It's 2009, things change. We're changing and so are the dog breeds. It happens, but these old fashioned people just won't deal with it. And the high price tag? Well I can only speak for in my state and they're cheaper than purebreds. A purebred Shih tzu is around $500 here, a 'Shih poo' is about $200. I see no problem. People sell accidental mixed hound/lab/beagle dogs for $100 everyday in the paper because they "want to ensure a good home", so what's the difference? You're just reading the threads from the "I hate anything different" club. Just ignore them. They'll get over it.

Answer 9

Excuse me, but breeding 2 different breeds is only producing Mutts, Mixed Breeds, and this is done by only BYB's and Puppy Mills, that way they can sell to the uneducated public...



People will run out and buy these dogs, not realizing they are not ever bred to get the great genetics from a dog....it only produces sick dogs, with a very short life span, most of them will be sick all their lives or development temperament problems.



No matter how sugar coated or how glorious a person tries to make them sound like a great dog to purchase, it is nothing short of greed, to sell the dogs for money.



No reputable breeder will mix breeds and say this dog is non allergic, you can't get allergies to this breed, cause is so untrue....people have allergies to the dander on all dogs, all dogs have dog dander and that is why the allergy to dogs occurs.



People see all these ads and people sellng oh a great new breed, when in fact all they are selling is a mixed breed dog, mutt as it is properly called.



Now, I have nothing against mutts, they cannot help who breeds the life out of them to produce even more mutts, and that is why our shelters and dog rescue clubs are now so over whelmed with dogs they cannot get adopted.



Thousands of dogs each week are put to sleep, cause of the over crowding at shelters, and BYB's and Puppy MIlls are in business and are the ones causing all these poor dogs to die.





It is nice you want to know why all us reputable breeders are against the mix breeding it is not done to improve any breed standard, cause mutts do not have a breed standard, you can't place a standard on a dog that has so many mixed breeds in it......it just cannot be done.



And, do not kid yourself, BYB's and Puppy Mills do not test their dogs, so do not be fooled by that myth, they lie to sell their dogs......to the poor uneducated public.. all you see is a cute puppy, and then it starts getting sick, or too large and off to the shelter it ends up..



The designer dogs, are mixes, mutts, pure and simple, and it should be banned for anyone to do it.



It does not effect the Reputable Breeders at all, but it is effecting the shelters really bad.

Answer 10

Its called human hindrance and more and more dogs are being tortured i guess. Recently we've come to like the "new and improved" dogs. BS! There is no such thing as a "better" dog. Because of designer dogs, dogs that actually need adoption are getting ignored.

Answer 11

I personally think guys look extremely warmer with short hair. I had the guy friend that had a afro and he cut it in 8th grade year and he suddenly received soo much cuter.

Answer 12

"Designer dogs" are nothing more that overpriced mutts that people INTENTIONALLY cross-bred. Some celebrity flaunts one, and suddenly people go wild demanding them, when the shelters are FULL of mutts. (That's where I found one of mine.) And if the shelter dogs aren't adopted, they are DESTROYED. Crossing breeds like pugs and beagles is simply irresponsible. And these people aren't true breeders, looking out for the welfare of the animal, they merely exploit the dogs for profit. Puppy pimps. Forget "designer dogs", and please get your dog from a shelter or a REAL BREEDER who doesn't cross whatever's in vouge that heat cycle.

Answer 13

Because some people actually still have a piece of rotten brain iniside their heads.



Designer Dogs are the worst invention (???) on earth. You pay for over-priced, runt mutts while you could easily adopt for free. And why? Because you fall in the BYB trap - after all, they say they are cute, small, with fancy names and purebred.



BYB's are the ones who have nothing on their heads.



You're welcome - glad I educated someone today. :-)

Answer 14

I honestly dont have got the patience to keep my tresses long

Answer 15

Stupid.