How do you properly use an e-collar to correct while on leash?

Question

Hi All,

This is a question for those out there with experience training with e-collars. I've trained my 1 year old Dobie with an electronic collar and his obedience, particularly off-leash, is excellent. I've been trained by a professional in the proper use of the e-collar and Dante (my pup) understands what the stimulation means. Since he's a bundle of energy and we spend most of our time off-leash, he tends to be way more anxious around dogs while on leash. I'm trying to work on this by going on regular daily leashed walks, but he still gets uptight when passing leashed dogs on the street. My question is: what is the most effective way to correct Dante when he shows early warning body language in the presence of another leashed dog when using an e-collar?

By early warning body language I don't mean lunging or growling. I want a mild correction to be frequently used whenever he becomes too focused on another dog (i.e. changes in posture, breathing, facial expression, walking speed, raised hackles, ear position, gaze, etc.). This way I can prevent more extreme behavior from ever occurring.

The answer is pretty straightforward when using a slip, prong, Halti, or other training collar, but I'm using an e-collar with a leash attached to an ordinary nylon collar. Should I give a low-level distracting stimulation paired with a tug on the leash? I hate pulling/correcting on a normal nylon collar as it can really hurt his neck.

Also, once he gets really amped up, any correction seems to set him off rather than distract him. I figure it's because he's so focused on the other dog that he associates the correction with the other dog and not as coming from me. Are there any different strategies if I screw up and Dante is already on high alert by the time I notice?

Thanks

Answer 1

If you have a leash on him you don't need the e-collar unless you're handicapped and physically unable to give a stern leash correction. Put the snap on the live ring of the prong collar and when he tenses up correct him. No need to use the e-collar on a leashed dog.



-edit- I'm not a fan of distracting the dog...that's covering the problem, not solving it. Pop the dog with that prong collar enough and he'll get the point...that point being "Every time I show aggression or even think to show aggression to other dogs I get a very uncomfortable correction, perhaps I should STOP" instead of "Okay silly human, I can pretend to ignore the mutt walking past for that piece of liver biscotti but if I ever get the chance I'll maul the next one coming..."



OH, also, some prong collars literally fall apart just when you need them, so, it's fine to use a nylong collar and a leash for back up, and the prong collar tethered to another leash (two leash method). Hold the dog back with the flat collar, correct with the other leash, it gives you great balance and ample opportunity to deliver a timely and effective correction.

Answer 2

Hitting the dog for recalling is going to set you back. NEVER do that. The dog came - that deserves "good come". At the very least - suck it up and just leash him and then heel him but never ever ever reprimand a dog for coming to you NO MATTER WHAT HE HAS DONE. The last thing that dog remembers from that day is your hand hitting him and your raging temper tantrum. He will be expecting it the next time. The horse is irrelevent in the dogs mind. TO BE BLUNT - YOU ARE WRONG! I cannot stress enough how much damage your "bad timing" is. NEVER loose control - and especially when the stakes are high. Your anxiety raises your dogs aggression. And yes, I cannot help but feel annoyed, because now instead of trying to work with the dog - you just want to zap him. An e-collar is not an excuse for poor handling or handler error. It should never be used in place of good training. Zapping it after hitting him could send the dog into avoidance - he may just high-tail it outta there. Boxers are not labs - they dont take it and take it and take it. Do you really want to destroy this dogs spirit? Your dog was not acting aggressive to the horse - and instead of hitting him, did you try (a) food rewards or (b) moving away from the dog (ie walk in the opposite direction) while calling him. Dogs rarely come when the handler moves toward them - that body language pushes them further away. Your efforts thus far tell me your handling skills are not ready for an e-collar. Your post is proof of that. Minimally, get the instruction of a pro and get help before you really destroy this dogs character. You need training with a pro to teach you the proper use of negative reinforcement and also to manage your temper. I shudder to think what you would do to that dog with an e-collar in your hand - are you going to zap him to kingdom come? ANGER has no place in any training environment. Get over it. ADD: I agree 100% with redhawkes post and JoJo's post. BTW, I do use a prong on my dogs- but I also have a GSD's and Doberman and in 30 years I have never used an e-collar. (I am in Canada) Your dog at least deserves a chance - please engage a pro and get the help you need before you make a decision you will regret. There are people that use e-collars for anything and everything -these people are not your role-model for success. Don't be tempted by pandora's box.

Answer 3

If your set on using the electric collar- does it have a warning beep? You can just give him the warning when he starts that body signaling and then try to redirect with positive reinforcement. Beep, look at me, get a treat. good dog! then keep moving..no big deal. Getting a stimuli in an already tense situation will most likely compound it, since you think he may already associate the correction with the other dog.

Answer 4

DZRTwind- Training a Doberman and a Shepherd are completely different, being a behaviorist and a Doberman Breeder/ Specialist. You should never give a physical or painful correction with an aggressive dog this can make your aggression worse! you should really go see a positive reinforcement or well-balanced trainer this will clarify, all your question effectively and safely.

Answer 5

Birddog- i agree- rather than using the e collar as a correction in this type of situation (which can escalate) it's better to re-focus the dog's attention.

i frequently use commands (even parlor tricks) to distract my dogs from other dogs, and to gain back their attention.



i re-trained one APBT who was EXTREMELY dog aggressive- she used to bark, snarl and lunge at other dogs. i trained her to give me a paw in exchange for a cookie every time she sees another dog- now it's an automatic response- she sees a dog, i get a paw.

instead of using the e collar as a correction for looking at the other dog, you need to condition him to have a different response.

if the dog is well trained, have him do something else. turn around and practice HEEL the other way- have him sit. get him to do ANYTHING to pay attention to you, and then reward him well.

making yourself more interesting/rewarding will pay off, and rather than being overly interested in the other dog, he'll become bored of other dogs, and wonder what you're going to ask him to do next, and what sort of reward (treat/praise/toy) you've got for him.

conditioning him for this sort of behavior will eliminate the need for the e collar in this type of situation- which could potentially give you the EXACT opposite results that you are looking for.

Answer 6

It sounds like you have a good handle on e-collar use but just to clarify, it's not a punishment and shouldn't cause pain at all just stimulation. I didn't get the sense that you are, I just want to make sure since it's fairly critical here. The corrections, particularly in this case, should be very mild.



What I would do is just take his training back down a level and make sure you're solid on the basics of walking on lead. The most important part being attention. It normally gets overlooked but in this case it's particularly important that when you have him on lead, his attention is solely on you.



The easiest way to test and reinforce this is by making random direction changes on lead. If he's not 100% focused on you he won't catch them. When that happens, give correction. I prefer to go with the continuous setting starting out and turning away from him, give a little over a second to respond then give the correction and release it when he turns as well. It's important to use the lowest setting that he notices. It's a bit tricky though because you really have to be observant to get the timing right on the release. When he's at the point that he's responding very quickly, the momentary is more practical.



The first couple times turn away from him to pick up his attention level. Usually they'll start heeling closer to you in anticipation of getting turned. If that happens after the first time or at whatever point he starts picking it up really well, start to turn into him. You have to be careful not to step on his feet so it's best to kind of push him with your knee as you're turning. You don't want to knock him over you just want to get him out of the way.



Then you can add stops with him sitting every time you stop and then moving forward again. I use two bumps on the e-collar for enforcing the sit when you stop but obviously you have to introduce him to that if he's not used to it already.



You can also just change walking speed or side step. With every skill you should decrease the amount of time you give him to respond as he understands it. Obviously there's a practical limit to the response speed that you can expect but it's pretty brief, though.



Once he's starting to get a good handle on it, mix it all together randomly with pretty frequent changes. Then start increasing the time between changes to challenge the amount of time he stays focused. Give him praise when he responds to your changes instantly and say nothing, just give correction, when he doesn't.



Any time he's on lead his shoulder should be 6 inches off your knee and if your standing still, he should be sitting. A good test and reinforcer is to have him sitting and you side step several feet. He should shift over and sit down. It just highlights the importance to him that no matter what happens, he should be in the proper place.



Once he's got that down, introduce some mild distractions like other people. If you get the impression that he's not focusing on you, do a direction change or stop. Then gradually increase the level of distraction.



Obviously the maximum level of distraction is going to be another dog. At this point he should be 100% focused on you in all other situations. Start with a dog he knows with a helper holding it on lead, standing still. When the dog comes into view give an attention check. Don't use the same attention check every time or he'll anticipate it. After he's passed that continue to approach and give frequent attention checks. Work closer and closer to the other dog. Once he's done it with a dog he knows than you can switch to a strange dog. Again move a bit closer every time he does it perfectly. Obviously it's always best to keep them out of reach of each other just in case.



As you've already identified, catching it early is key. If he's worked up, mild corrections are ignored and stronger corrections make things worse. If he gets to the point where he's worked up, just stop where you are, hold him by the lead but don't react in any way until he stops. Any change or action you make is either going to reward the behavior, like walking the other dog away, or make it worse, like any kind of correction since you're adding stimulus to a situation that's already stressing him. Just wait it out. When he settles enough that you're convinced he'll respond, make him sit and continue on a line so you're not 90 deg from looking at the dog so you can see where his attention is very clearly.



Eventually you just slowly work up to the point that his focus is on you any time he's on lead. From what you're saying he should probably get a good handle on the basic stuff pretty quickly but working around the dog might be slow going. Every once in a while mix in distraction free sessions to reinforce and don't work him too much in one session as they can get bored and productivity drops significantly at that point. Work sessions should be followed by fun sessions.



Socialization will also help speed things up. Any dog interaction has to be off lead though so as not to interfere with your training but the more dogs and people he can meet, the smoother it'll go. Also, working in odd places will help his general confidence. Some play grounds work great when they are empty like the bridges they have that kind of flex when you walk on them. Man hole covers, metal grates with small holes, or metal stairs also work well.



Best of luck with it.