What's so wrong with giving a stern correction?

Question

Why do so many people here consider ignoring or time outs more effective when it comes to training? Why not just knee the dog if he jumps on you, in oppose to ignore him until he decides to stop? I don't think kneeing the dog is going to damage it's feelings and make it become scared or hostile. Nor do I think that a dog will be scarred for life if corrected with a choke

Understandably, ignoring is a correction itself, but I don't see how it can be as effective for a determined jumper.

Also do you consider the head halti as a useful tool or just a load BS? Personally, I don't really care for how others train their dog, whether prong, halti , clicker whatever, I just don't like the head halter for a lot of reasons.

Answer 1

Nothing, if a stern correction is warranted and issued immediately the dog steps out of line that is the owner showing the leadership qualities a dog needs to see to choose to comply and do what it is told without bribery or pleading, over reacting to an instinct or acting on an inclination.



What is a stern correction depends on the temperament of the individual dog and can be a raised but matter of fact calm tone of voice for one dog or quick pop on the lead for another dog that will “talk back” and more readily challenge authority and the intensity of how appealing the unwanted behavior is to the dog.



Far better for an intensely driven dog to be stopped with a correction and learn to choose to curb a strong and fun instinct on command which goes against what it would love to do, than to chase a rabbit into the path of the car and be spread all over the road, requiring a shovel to scrape it up.



I have used lifting the knee up and not into the dog, with no eye contact for years to stop jumping and all have quickly cottoned on that it was an unrewarding behavior and kept all four paws where I wanted them on the ground.



Each to his or her own with head collars, but they are all control mechanisms because the dog is prevented from using its body weight by being led by the head and not one of the training tools. Yes, a powerful dog will walk nicely at its owner side, but take the head collar off and a strong dog would still not have learned to choose to walk calmly at is owner side because that is what the owner demanded and would follow through it the dog pulled like a carthorse with a correction. I have tried a couple of type of head collars on my dogs in the past, but they don’t help me to accomplish my goals and prefer the neck tech or remote training collar.

Answer 2

Nothing wrong with a stern correction if it is used correctly and on a dog that can handle it. Training a dog something new by using correction? Not for me and not something I approve of, but I am not going to call it animal abuse either, unless the corrections are extreme.



I used a choke collar on my first dog, but later found other methods to be more effective with her. My current dog has no clue what a choke collar is, she has never even seen one. My objection to the choke collar is not when it is used correctly, but that there are so many people who do not know how to use it correctly.



But it is the same with all tools, including the halti. I have used a halti on a dog, but it was combined with a harness and leash, so that the halti was not used to actually hold the dog, just to help control it. There seems to be a general misunderstanding that the training tool is supposed to automatically fix the dog's behaviour, and I have lost count on the times I've had people say that they have tried harness, haltis, choke collars, prongs, anti-pull harnesses etc. and the dog still pulls! But then when I ask them "Yes, but did you TRAIN it?", they give me this clueless look.

Answer 3

1. Time outs work equally well in children and dogs- that is to say, not at all. A nice stern correction is so much more effective in both cases (although I don't recommend kneeing children in the chest lol)



2. A prong or choke is very effective in the right hands.



3. Haltis have limited uses but quite frankly its much better to simply train your dog properly from the beginning. A halti was recommended to us for a DDB that had a difficult time understanding the concept of loose lead walking. We found a prong had much better results.

Answer 4

There is nothing wrong with giving a stern correction, but people are ignorant and too soft. So many dogs are weak nerved because they are bred by idiots, and sold to idiots. These dogs crumble under the slightest correction, and as a result, they view correction as being abusive. I train using positive reinforcement. I use compulsions to proof - I do not have a hard dog and a pop on the lead always works very well.



One behaviour I cannot abide is a dog jumping on people. My own dog got into this habit a while back and I wasn't having it. A knee to the chest did the trick. He wasn't expecting it and he doesn't do it any more. That took ONE correction (the harshest correction I've had to use). I don't have the time to be ignoring bad behaviour until he gets bored.



Harnesses and head collars are for horses or sled dogs. I only use a harness when we are scootering.

Answer 5

If Compulsion training was causing damage to a dogs confidence and screwed up a dog mentally then all the dogs I have grown up with should have been 'emotionally damaged' dogs, but they weren't. They were behaved and still greeted my dad with a wagging tail as all my childhood dogs have done so.



I find nothing wrong with positive and negative training methods, not all dogs are going to respond with the whole ignoring method and some dogs actually *NEED* that stern correction in order for it to get through.



Some people these days seem to think the soft and positive approach is going to work for every dog out there, it's not.



As for training tools, I dont care for the head halti. If it works for one person and their dog then all the more power to them

Answer 6

I have used my knee when my mother's dog was very,very bad about jumping up and not getting down. More like trying to knock you over so he can hump you type of thing. Well, every morning, he jumped on me trying to knock me down. I kneed him. The next day, he tried it again, I kneed him.



Popped him right in the chin! He didn't try it again that next day...it worked and has been that way since. I can sit on the ground without being stepped on by an 83Ilbs dog licking and trying to jump on me. Or walk outside without this huge beast trying to knock me over.



Next question- I used to walk my mother's dog with a halti until he slipped it a couple of times. Seriously don't know what happened to it when we moved in 2010. Lol! Hope someone is making some use of it because it wasn't worth the $14 plus tax. So to me, the halti is BS!!



ADD: You cannot train a dog without compulsion, EVER! I found out the hard way and had to scrap my entire positive-only training last year and completely phased Teensy out of positive-only training this year. She adores me more than ever. I haven't had many problems out of her since I have a mixed training method now. Even the little dogs need stern training. My little dog is the model of little dog behavior around here: No snapping, eating children, babies, other dogs, ankles....not afraid of leaves and could care less about running into the road. She actually stops before she crosses that invisible line.

Answer 7

i see nothing wrong with a stern or physical correction ... i personally can not stand dogs that jump up and they will be getting a knee to the chest from me, not to hurt, but to be very clear i don't like what they are doing ... my friend had a very rambunctious puppy that at a year old and over sixty pounds was a jumper upper ... he was very upset he could not get the dog to stop jumping up ... his method was turning his back to the dog (said he saw it work on oprah !!!) ... so one time when i arrived i gave that dog a good knee to the chest and did not hurt but certainly startled the dog that i did that ... my friend had a flipping conniption fit ... said i was going to hurt the dog ... i followed by ignoring the dog until it calmed down a bit ... and my friend told me to at least talk to the dog so it would not "feel bad" about what i just did ... i told him you do not give attention to overly anxious behaviour cause it just reinforces it ... his dog still jumps up, but not on me, and my friend still will not take charge ... and a sixty pound dog is big, if it jumped up on a kid like that or anyone not ready for it, they could fall or get injured ... i do use ignoring but only for when my dog rolls a ball under some furniture ... i am not a ball fetcher so it stays where it is and i just ignore until he goes and gets another toy ... i do not have a problem with the head halter ... same friend with the dog that jumps up, a head halter had that dog walking normally within a month ... i also do not care what people want to use to train their dogs ... i personally find clicker training utterly stupid and ridiculous ... my own dog went through obedience training, having completed advanced by just over a year old, and i used no training tools but a leash and my voice (but he is only five pounds and very compliant) ...

Answer 8

Anyone afraid to give a real correction... has never really trained their dog.



I say this all the time and get TDs out the whazoo... but, I will say it again.



There is NOTHING wrong with physical or immediate corrections. I use them, and they work. They work WELL. I own Pits. I do not have time to sit around and beg my dog to listen while he sits there and gets fat off of treats. I need my dogs to listen and to listen t instant I give a command... and I ensure that with an immediate correction. I do not wait until they decide to listen and them flood them with treats. They obey on MY terms or they are corrected for it and corrected until they have complied with my demands.



I want a dog that obeys when I tell it something.. I don't want a fat dog that disobeys because it knows it will recieve a snack if it corrects itself. THAT is called a dog outsmarting a human... and that just isnt right.



Lets use an every day case with all breeds: Jumping on people. Everyone sais to ignore the dog and it will stop jumping on you. NO. Odds are, it will continue to jump even after you turn around and it will keep jumping until you either remove the dog, or give an immediate correction. Now, is it not the goal to allow your dog to be present when people arrive to your home...?? If you take the dog away when it jumps... you are teaching it NOTHING. Only that when people come over.. he gets put up. Now, correct the jumping when it happens... THAT shows the dog the behavior is not acceptable and every time it happens... something he severly dislikes will happen.



I choose to use the knee to the chest, or the pinch collar. I find jerking the pinch when the dogs front feet come off the ground works wonders. And I usually only have to do this a few times. Needless to say, my dogs do not jump on people. And THAT is because of an immediate correction of the problem.



Lets take a breed specific issue (Pits): Yes, my dogs have gotten into fights. I quickly learned to how put a STOP to this. Not by separating them, but by making damn sure they would rather ignore each other than have happen to them what will if they choose to fight.. with a correction. Whether it need be a sever leash pop for making aggressive body language, an e-collar, or.. if they get into it... using any means necessary to get their attention. And I have knocked the holy hell out of them with tree limbs and various other objects.



And yes, I have smacked my dogs with my own hand before. And guess what... they have NEVER showed any aggression towards me or people, never snapped at me, never cower from me. Why? Because they know that they only recieve these corrections when they act on certain behaviors.



Obedience and compliance are not requested in my home, they are DEMANDED.



And guess what... my dogs still happily greet me at the door.



*** Head collars? Never used them. I prefer the choke or prong collars.

Answer 9

subject a million, what you're doing isn't a correction, it is training an appropriate reaction. My dogs has been experienced to do a take a seat/stay every time somebody walks in the door. as quickly as the guy is in the dogs is then allowed to pass (frivolously) and greet the guy. it quite is quite acceptable. subject 2, artwork on coaching a "provide" or "drop" command. If Launi starts being to tough or refuses to allow go for the time of the interest, provide the command to launch the toy. If she does it, compliment her for following the command. If no longer, walk away and make it clean that the interest is over. walking away is a variety of destructive punishment (getting rid of what the animal needs, i.e. interest). subject 3, Make the storage thoroughly off limits. Launi would not get to pass into under any situations. Ask for a take a seat/stay in yet another room previously you visit the storage. do no longer permit her stick to you to the door, subsequently getting rid of the possibility that she will bolt.

Answer 10

You are beating a dead horse in here with this question. It has been asked over and over and people will never come to accept a correction like this as a possibility for their dogs.

The reasons are many, but, ignorance is the first one and misplaced emotions is the other. Not realizing its a damn dog can be one as well, but, still, you are beating a dead horse..



Over the years I asked a question of "how do you proof your dog without compulsion"...I never once got an answer, EVER!!! I have had a couple of people come in and try to play the "being on the fence" game, the " I need to be accepted" so I wont tell you one, but, never had an answer that FULLY detailed to me how it works...good luck with this one.

Answer 11

Positive methods are more effective but then once a dog has learned the exercise you need to use a correction that is of an appropriate level for that dog - so that they understand that it is not optional.

Answer 12

I've been using the *knee method* for for decades, so no, I certainly don't think it's wrong.



Sorry, never used a head halti and never will.

Answer 13

Because it's f*cking mean!! Haven't you learnt anything yet!??



Your dog will live in fear!



It will ruin the bond!



You want your dog to respect you, not fear you!



It will eventually maul you if you ever slap it!



That's just being an a$$hole animal abuser! Even if you pull it by the collar, don't you dare even just do that!



I will ring the f*cking police because you're the worst dog owner ever!!



..............I think that covers it...?