B.Y.B. [vs] Reputable Breeders?

Question

We all know the great debate with Back Yard Breeders vs Reputable Breeders. One produces a great quality animal, another produces a seriously poor excuse for an animal.

Some people believe in the "Hybrid Vigor" deal, which states that a mixed breed dog is healthier than a pure bred dog. However, the Websters definition of Hybrid states that its a mix of two separate species. Others believe that a "good family pet" will produce more "good family pets" if bred with another "good family pet" regardless of health/temperament testing [or the lack there of]. There are many many more arguments that support/tear down every angle and opinion- some are justified, others are not.

What is your personal opinion of the BYB vs Reputable breeder debate, where do you stand on which is right, do you believe in the "Hybrid Vigor" deal, and how do you think breeding SHOULD be carried out?

Please cite if you use outside sources other than that great brain of yours!

Answer 1

Here are my qualifications for a responsible breeder, no matter what they are breeding:



1. Do all applicable health/genetic testing. Even if hybrid vigor was true (which it isn't), breeding mixed breed dogs without testing passes down the same genes as breeding pure bred dogs without testing. So, once you get past the first generation of mixed breed pups, you start having the same issues as any purebred population.



2. State why you are breeding, what you are breeding for, and BACK IT UP. So, you are breeding working dogs? How are you testing working ability? Breeding for temperament (i.e. "good pet dogs)? Then show me the CGC or TD certifications. Breeding for structure/conformation? Show me the CHs.



As for hybrid vigor, I have answered more fully in the past here:



https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20090610074150AAFiNqW



Add: Hybrid vigor is *not* true when it comes to the vast majority of dog breeds, especially those that originated in Europe and North America. They are all too closely related to have *any* hybrid vigor.

Answer 2

There are so many opinions on this. Personally I believe that if you get a Purebreed dog from a reputable breeder, that dog would be a lot healthier. The reputable breeder breeds for health and temperament right?



Therefor if you buy from a BYB, that most likely will not health check the parents and pups, that it will be less healthy, because they will be getting both of the health problems that the Purebreed parents might have.



Breeding should be carried out by people who know what they are doing, and produce the best quality pet they can and try to improve the breed.



Honestly I think that a Hybrid dog, you won't know exactly what you are getting because the results are never the same for each litter.



My mixed breed Blade was rescued from a BYB, now he is two years old and has elbow dysplasia, and arthritis, the vet said he may loose his legs by the time he is 8. Classic example of "Leave the breeding to the professionals".



All of this is my personal opinion, but here is a video of what AKC breeders/show think about hybrid dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tCLEYFN2Co&feature=channel_page



ADD: Here's another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUVBvl0Fe3c&feature=fvw

Answer 3

*deep breath*



Hybrid vigour, in this case, is a load of rubbish. Where's the proof?

Breeding should only be carried to better the breed. Those dogs being bred should be health and temperament tested beforehand.

The whole idea that when crossing two breeds, the pups will get the best of both, is untrue, otherwise each generation would be better than the one before. Do you see that happening?

What the world does not need at the moment is more unwanted dogs. Bybs breed for stupid reasons (you know the ones I'm talking about: 'puppies are cute', 'I thought it would make us some quick money', 'I want her to have pups before she's spayed'), or the pregnancies are unplanned, showing that bybs are irresponsible, careless, and thoughtless.



I could go on and on about this issue, but I'll leave it at that for now. Most people on here, I would imagine, would share the same viewpoints as me.

Answer 4

I really like this article by Darlene Arden. She talks about the poodle mixes and pug mixes.



Also, sure you are going to have some healthy mixes here and there with good temperaments that will live to 20 years.

The others may not even make it past 3-5 years old and have teeth rotting out of their mouth, have diabetes and have both hips dysplasic.



Then you have the purebred which is grouped into two categories.



One category is the poorly bred purebreds which are the product of puppy mills and back yard breeders. These are the majority of all purebreds out there. Generation after generation of poorly bred dogs with any possible genetic condition you can think of. No genetic testing and no temperament testing.



The second category are the show dogs which are genetic tested and temperament tested before even being bred and the tests repeated so the data is accurate. How can you say with 4-5 generations of genetic tested and temperament tested dogs that they are going to be less healthier then a mix. There is a very little chance of genetic condition because the generation after generation of genetic testing being performed.

Answer 5

I'm for reputable breeders and against all backyard breeding, regardless of the excuse for it, even the infamous "We are going to keep all of the puppies". I do not believe in "hybrid vigor" either. Mixed breeds being healthier than purebreds is a myth perpetuated by those that want to convince others that their irresponsible breeding practices are good.



I love mutts and own one myself, however with a purebred from a reputable breeder, you are getting a quality animal that you know genetically and temperament wise is ideal. With a mixed breed, these are things that you do not know. You have no way of knowing the genetic health of these animals because backyard breeders do not genetic test their animals. They also don't temperament test. Temperament testing is going beyond the regular companion animal that lays at your feet and wags his tail. Good bloodlines? Forget it with a mixed breed from a backyard breeder. From a reputable breeder, all of this information is what you get.



With mixed breeding, you are also taking the chance of taking the BAD from both breeds and potentially creating a very unsound genetic nightmare of a dog. I have had numerous mixed breeds in my life and they were/are some really awesome dogs, but that doesn't mean they should be intentionally bred.



Breeding should be carried out in a very well thought out manner with the well being of the breed standard as well as the temperament and health of the animals in mind. Any genetic defects that the breed is prone to should be tested for prior to even considering breeding. The dog should either be a working animal that has something worth while to pass on, or titled in conformation. A top of the line b*tch and top of the line stud should be used in hopes of producing well bred and quality pups.



The breeder themselves should be very well learned in dogs and their specific breed, as well as the whelping process and routine screenings during the pregnancy. There is a lot of stuff that should go into breeding...the things only a reputable breeder does.

Answer 6

Hybrid vigor is real but I know what you mean about the technical definition.



reputable breeders are good, byb are scum out to make money - designer dogs are generally made as the result of breeding 2 lower qualtiy purebreds, because if the dogs were purebreds they would be breeding purebreds



IF somebody was to actually breed 2 top quality purebreds - resulting in a mixed breed mutt, that would be somewhat better (although still unethical) than all these ones breeding substandard purebreds together.

here is my outside source that pretty much explains my views

http://www.helium.com/items/1353655-is-a-purebred-better-than-a-mixed-breed-pup

Answer 7

Personally I know nothing about breeding dogs. My reason is that I would never go to one. I feel that there are already thousands in the shelters, and I'm not looking for a show dog, just a companion. I know from being on here that there is a major dif. between a byb's dog and reoutable breeder's, but I believe more in adopting

Answer 8

If you don't show, then you shouldn't be breeding. If you're not willing to be getting external, educated opinions on whether or not your dogs are any good, then you have no reason to be bringing more of them into the world.



It's not like we're going to suddenly "run out of dogs".



Two million dead dogs a year is about the strongest argument AGAINST breeding that I can think of, but it amazes me how many people still choose to kill them, all the while saying "But I'M not part of the problem! It's all those OTHER irresponsible breeders!"

Answer 9

Simple - I believe BYBs and the "Hybrid Vigor" are nothing but crap. I believe reputable breeders - are great breeders.



I believe iv answered this very question more then 20+ times, you do know the search tool above of this page is there for a reason? I suggest using it once in awhile. You will find this question posted about 80+ times.

Answer 10

I agree with you re BYB and reputable breeders.



Hybrid Vigor...........rubbish!



Breeders need to be registered, licensed and checked. A breeder should be responsible for the pup sold for life and so each pup should be chipped before they go to their new home.............so none of them ever go into rescue and are PTS.......think this would stop a lot of breeding.

All pups who are sold to pet homes should be required to be neutered.........and the KC should not require a dog to be neutered to be shown as many would like to show their dog but not necessarily breed with them.

Everyone who buys a dog should be required to do professional training with it, helps dog, owner and community.



Strong views.....sorry! seen too many dogs PTS because people don't know or don't care

Answer 11

Backyard Breeder:



1. Motive for breeding: "fun", "good for kids", "to make money".

2. Breeds the family pet to any convenient pet of the same breed just to have purebred pups.

3. Though the pets (sire/dam of pups) may be well loved, they were not tested for hip dysplasia or for other genetic problems such as cardiomyopathy and hypothyroidism.

4. Offers no health guarantee beyond proof of shots, if that.

5. Seller has little knowledge of breed history, the national breed club or of the AKC breed standard.

6. Pups raised in makeshift accommodations, sometimes unsanitary, indicating lack of long-term investment in breeding and lack of true care for the puppies well-being.

7. Even when selling "just pets", may produce AKC papers or "championship pedigrees" as proof of quality.

8. May be unwilling to show a buyer the entire litter or to introduce the dam of the litter.

9. Prices are at the low end of local range, since must move pups quickly.

10. No concern for the future of individual pups or the breed as a whole.



Reputable Breeder:



1. Dedication to producing quality dogs is serious avocation.

2. Can explain how planned breedings are used to emphasize or minimize specific qualities through linebreeding, outcrossing, or more rarely, inbreeding.

3. Does not breed dogs younger than age 2.

4. Written contractural commitment to replace a dog with genetic faults or to help owner deal with problem.

5. Loves the breed and can talk at length about its background, uses, and ideal type.

6. Has an investment in dog equipment and the puppies environment is sanitary and loving.

7. Belongs to national, regional, and/or local dog clubs, indicating a love for the sport of purebred dogs.

8. Shows litter and dam in a sanitary environment.

9. Prices will be at the high end of local range.

10. After purchase, will help you with grooming or training problems.

Answer 12

reputable breeders are just as bad as puppymills selling unhealthy pups.

mixed breeds are healthier and smarter



http://www.zootoo.com/petnews/studyfindsmixbreedssmarterthan-354



http://www.epetarticles.com/dog-breeds-pure-breed-vs-mutt.html

http://www.islanddog.org/pureormixedbreed.html



some reference you can get to read up on.



All the scientific studies in this area have found that the average mutt is healthier and will live longer than the average purebred. Here are a few references:



1) B.N. Bonnett, A. Egenvall, P. Olson, . Hedhammar, Mortality in Swedish dogs: rates and causes of death in various breeds, The Veterinary Record, 12/7/1997, S. 40 - 44)

"Mongrels were consistently in the low risk category" (S.



41)



2) P.D. McGreevy & W.F. Nicholas, Some Practical Solutions to Welfare Problems in Pedigree Dog Breeding, Animal Welfare, 1999, Vol 8, 329-331

"Hybrids have a far lower chance of exhibiting the disorders that are common with the parental breeds. Their genetic health will be substantially higher." (P338)





3) A. Egenvall, B.N. Bonnett, P. Olson, . Hedhammar,Gender, age, breed and distribution of morbidity and mortality in insured dogs in Sweden during 1995 and 1996, The Veterinary Record, 29/4/2000, p. 519-57

"Mongrel dogs are less prone to many diseases then the average purebred dog." (S. 524)





4) R. Beythien, Tierarten- und Hunderassenverteilung, Erkrankungshufigkeit und prophylaktische Manahmen bei den hufigsten Hunderassen am Beispiel einer Tierarztpraxis in Bielefeld in den Jahren 1983-1985 und 1990-1992, 1998, Diss., Tierrztl. Hochschule Hannover

Mongrels require less veterinary treatment





5) A. R. Michell, Longevity of British breeds of dog and its relationship with sex, size, cardiovascular variables and disease, Vet. Rec., 27 Nov. 1999, S. 625-629

"There was a significant correlation between body weight and longevity. Crossbreeds lived longer than average but several pure breeds lived longer than cross breeds, notably Jack Russell, miniature poodles and whippets" (S. 627 - thus only small and toy breeds, as to be expected)





6) G.J. Patronek, D.J. Walters, L.T. Glickman, Comparative Longevity of Pet Dogs and Humans: Implications for Gerontology Research, J. Geront., BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES, 1997, Vol 52A,No.3, B171-B178

"The median age at death was 8,5 years for all mixed breed dogs and 6,7 years for all pure breed dogs For each weight group, the age at death of pure breed dogs was significantly less than for mixed breed dogs." (p. B173)





7) H.F. Proschofsky et al, Mortality of purebred and mixed breed dogs in Denmark, Preventive Veterinary Medicine, 2003, 58, 53-74

Higher average longevity of mixed breed dogs (grouped together). Age at death mixed breeds (Q1 Q2 Q3 mixed breeds 8,11,13, purebreds 6, 10, 12)



I've yet to find any research that shows otherwise.

Answer 13

Really, do you even have to ask?