Anyone else think that this is extremely cruel?

Question

http://www.petco.com/product/8062/Aspen-Pet-Mighty-Link-Chain-Training-Collars.aspx

And no I dont have one or would never even consider getting one!
Surely any dog that wears one of these only behaves out of pure fear and this collar must be agonisanely painful!
Does antone own one of these or what are your views on them?

Answer 1

Actually, there is no pain with a pinch collar. The main down fall is if the dog is a horrible puller and squirrel chaser, the collar will do more harm than good if the dog takes off after the squirrel. As the pinch of the collar will mean nothing as he's darting off after the squirrel, which could in turn cause terrible next trauma.



These collars are actually used in training, but most people do not know how to properly fit or use a pinch collar. Dogs do not react from fear just because a particular collar is used over another. They act fearful if they are a fearful dog or come into contact with something they fear. I have used this collar, but I would not reccommend it unless the person knows what they're doing or it is another resort. I always reccommend gentle leaders for dogs who pull. But sometimes, a pinch collar works better with certain individual dogs.



The points are not sharp, as they may seem in the picture, but rather dulled points. You can even purchase plastic tips to make them even kinder to the dog. But the dog is not hurt using one of these. A choke/chain collar, is worse on the dog than a pinch collar. Choke collars are known to cause more damage to the dog if not used properly. If used properly, both collars (choke and pinch) will niether hurt or harm any dog.



I've heard of cases where dog will have a medical concern where their trachae will collapse with undo pressure on the front of the neck, so the only option for a colar is a pinch collar, as it puts pressure around the entire neck versus the front.

Answer 2

That's a prong or pinch collar. I have a few of them here, and use them occasionally. They're actually less harmful to a dog's neck than a choke chain would be. I've tried both out on my arm, and the prong pinches the skin, while the choke feels like a judo chop. I myself put the rubber caps on the prongs to make it a bit more comfortable. I also only use them under certain circumstances, like going out to a parade or a festival where I want my dog to stay at my side on her own. If she's wearing the prong, she will pretty much remember her manners voluntarily, without me having to correct her.



Everybody has their own tools they like to use in dog training. A prong is just another tool, which can be either useful or destructive, depending on the user. Its like a lot of things.

Answer 3

Oh geez, I had no idea what that link went to, was all apprehensive and stuff -- and it was a pic of prong collar !



They're awesome. I had a pit / boxer mix foster dog who performed wonderfully with one. Without it, I was not strong enough to control him.



Do what I did -- put one around your neck and tug tug tug. No hurt, no pain. It's actually safer and more humane than a regular chain collar, which puts all the pressure on the trachea. A prong evenly distributes the pressure.



As long as they are used under the supervision of a trained professionaly, these collars can be life savers (literally)

Answer 4

It is WAY more humans than putting a metal choke collar on a dog and letting it pull until the trachea collapses!!!!



It is a very effective training tool. You should get a clue before you call something cruel. These have been used for a LONG time for training. The should be fitted by someone that knows what the heck they are doing, but they are NOT cruel. They are NOT spikes designed to impale the dog!!!!!!



I have THREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Jeez some people are idiots!!! They have been selling these at pet supply stores for YEARS!!!! You have all been living under the rock too long!! I have seen the Dog Whisperer use them too!!!!! Everyone seems to LOVE the metal choke collars that can cause severe damage to a neck and trachea....but something that makes them STOP pulling so they do not choke themselves is cruel????????



It is FUNNY when total clueless people try and talk about something they know ZIPPO about!!!!!!!



The one above me is PRICELESS!!!! "Schutzdog" training!!!



Doesn't that just KILL you!!!!!!!!!



Go hug a tree!!!!

Answer 5

No, the collar is not "agonizingly painful". I tried one of these on MYSELF before I ever used one on a dog. They are a VERY effective tool when positive reinforcement techniques for training do not work. There is far less likelihood of permanent tracheal damage than with a choke chain type collar and less likelihood of neck damage than with an improperly fitted or improperly used Gentle Leader.



I train dogs. As a trainer I use the training aid that gets the result I need with the least number of issues. If the dog will work for praise and cookies, then I use that... But in the case of a 210 lb Saint Bernard who simply has a great NEED to go THAT way (into traffic) I can tell you NONE of the other collars are going to keep him from what he wants to do... and when it comes to the safety of the dog, I'll do what is necessary.



Now, before you get all judgemental.. I would recommend you do some research... including putting one of these collars on around your thigh over your jeans (which most closely approximates the skin type of dogs with fur covering their necks) and then try to tell me that its "agonizingly painful".



I'm going to hope you NEVER have a dog that has a hard temperament.

Answer 6

They don't use these in the UK (thank goodness) but are widely used in the USA I believe.



To be honest I think anyone using one over here in the UK could be charged with cruelty for using one of these barbaric collars.



I asked a question a while ago asking how we managed to have any well trained dogs at all in the UK as we don't resort to using torture implements such as these. In my opinion someone needing to use one of these collars uses it because they are unable to, or too lazy to train a dog by positive reinforcement methods used in the UK by the majority of trainers both proffessional and the man in the street.



Reading back some of the answers to this question it is obvious that the majority of posters are American and agree with the collars judging by the thumbs down scores for people against these collars! I look forward to seeing how many thumbs down I recieve!

Answer 7

To the ignorant, scroll down the page and read this:

"Preferred by obedience trainers for control and safety of hard to control and large dogs.



Extra-strong steel links won't break or rust.



Delivers a mild correction with a slow pull and release motion."



These are to be used on very stubborn dogs and they cause virtually no pain if used properly. Theyre more effective than a choke chain on many dogs, and are safer if used properly.



Misuse or leaving this on the dog all the time is abuse. Using it properly as a training tool, only when the dog is on a leash is a great training method for some dogs.

Answer 8

It shouldn't be used in a way that's painful to the dog. I don't have one, but I know plenty of people, even dog trainers that use them (on larger dogs) that would never in a million years hurt their dog. It's not like they're choking or yanking and pulling the dog around with it. It should fit loosely and be used just like any other training collar.

Answer 9

Spike collars have been a source of controversy since their inception.



there are folks that believe no dog can listen with out one.



There are folks that believe they should be outlawed.



For me, personally, I have been a dog trainer professional since 1981, and we do not allow spike collars in our class.



While they may be effective, many people who have them are not trained in the proper way to use them, and many vets have had to remove the collar after the dog lunges and the spikes get imbedded into the dog's skin.

Answer 10

I am appalled about the number of people who assume that this collar is horrible and don't even know how it is used.

I certainly can't believe someone who claims to be a vet tech for 6 years never heard about one either. This is nothing new people. I see all of the folks who know about dogs and dog training are the ones supporting it.

Unreal.

Answer 11

No it absolutely is not. My lab is such a puller, and it was recommended to me to help train her not to. It is compared to the mama's bite, when it was a puppy. It's not a choker; those are cruel. The tips are not sharp, they just dig in a little to help you get some control. She didn't mind it at first, but she doesn't much like it anymore, so I have switched to a halter, which works well too.

Don't freak out about this! If you felt it you would realize it's not sharp at all.

Answer 12

In any given situation, focus on what you do want your dog to do instead of on whatever he’s doing wrong. Learn how to train your dog https://tr.im/SIjnC



For example, suppose that on many evenings, your young dog gets busy looking for trouble just as you’re digesting your dinner. He grabs a boot from the mat by the front door and gallops through the house with it. You yell at him and take it away. He grabs its mate. You yell and take it away. He heads for the kitchen and starts checking out the counters in case something tasty’s been left behind. You chase him away. And on and on, until you’ve lost your temper and torn out clumps of hair you can ill afford to lose.

Answer 13

I am really surprised by many of the answers in response to this question. Mainly I'm surprised because Yahoo Answers is all about knowledgeable people sharing their knowledge and experience (at least it should be), but I really see a lack of both in this thread.





What this Collar Is -



This type of collar is called a prong collar, and sometimes it's also called a pinch collar.



It is probably one of the most misunderstood training tools on the planet, both by dog owners as well as by some dog trainers. Some trainers advocate their use. Some think they are necessary. Others are completely against them. What it comes down to is who is using them, why, and how.



I see a lot of people who use these to control a difficult dog but who don't know how to use the collar correctly. They just heard or were told by a friend, family member, or trainer, that these collars can stop a dog from pulling. But they never go and see a trainer to teach them how to use the tool. They are the kind of people who slip the collar over the dog's head instead of disconnecting the links, and who don't know how to size it correctly. In the hands of those people, such a collar can be dangerous and do more damage than good.



However, any tool that is used by someone who doesn't know how to use it can be dangerous and damaging. Standard collars like the slip or choke chain are no different. Even modern "humane" devices such as head collars are no different. Even a flat collar can be dangerous.





First, let's get this out of the way: the prong collar is a training device. As a result, it should ONLY ever be on the dog when you are doing training: at class, on walks, or wherever else you train. This collar is not a 24-7 collar. It should not be left on the dog when you're not there holding the other end of the leash. It most definitely should never be used to tie a dog out or secure a dog inside a vehicle.





How to use this Collar -



A prong collar is fitted by removing links from the chain and fitting it around the upper part of the dog's neck. The actual "prongs" are not spikes, but rounded ends. As such, they don't pierce or prick the skin, they pinch it. (This is why this type of collar is also called a "pinch" collar.)



A prong collar does not give continuous or nagging corrections like most flat collars, choke chains and harnesses are. A lot of people let their dogs pull on flat collars or chokes. A dog cannot pull on a prong collar - the dog corrects itself for pulling. Pull = correction.



In all other circumstances, a correction is given by giving a short, quick tug on the leash and then immediately releasing the leash pressure again. This mimics the way an alpha dog corrects its subordinates by biting them on the neck - a quick bite for correction and letting go. This is something that dogs understand because it's in their nature to correct each other like this.



Because of the way the prong collar is used (when it is used correctly), it's actually a more humane and less damaging tool than other training collars on the market.





Collars can Cause damage!



Take the choke chain. Many people who have a problem with a prong collar will use chokes. A choke is much more difficult to use for an inexperienced person because it requires frequent adjustment to keep it behind a dog's ears. (Around the lower part of the neck - which is the strongest part of the dog - it is ineffective and useless!) A choke chain can also cause serious damage to a dog's neck and trachea, including cumulative damage with years of use. Collapsed tracheas and bruising are fairly common in dogs walked on chokes.



Take the head collars as well - Haltis and Gentle Leaders. Suzanne Clothier, the author of "Bones Would Rain from the Sky", has a very good article about the misuses and problems with head halters on her website, here - http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html She also has an article on training with prong collars in the same area that is interesting.



A head halter is much more dangerous than a prong in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. I don't know how many times I've seen someone with a dog on a head halter *AND* a Flexi lead, letting the dog drift ahead at will, then yanking its head back.





Why People Don't Like Prongs



I think the problem people have with prong collars are that they assume they are painful and that the dog only behaves out of fear because of how the collar LOOKS. Both of those assumptions are wrong. The only thing such assumptions prove are that the person has not done any research about all training tools available and how they are used.



First, the prong is not a horrible painful device. As I've already explained, the tips of the individual prongs are actually rounded. When I explain to people about the prong, I have them slip it around their forearm, then give a quick correction. Most are surprised that it's not nearly as painful as they imagine. Add to this the fact that dogs have thicker skin than humans *and* fur on top of that, and it's not that harsh of a correction. It's a correction - yes - that's the whole point of using it, but it's not harsh or inhumane.



Second, the prong collar (or use of corrections in general) does not rule out positive training. Even positive training has room for corrections - once the dog knows a command and chooses not to follow it. There are many different types and kinds of corrections, and which ones you use depends on your dog's needs. Some dogs need stronger corrections while others are fine with a verbal correction.





Who uses this thing, anyway?



Consider this. Our law enforcement and military both use positive reinforcement for training their drug and explosives search dogs, and even their protection dogs. Dogs are rewarded for jobs well done - with tugs, kongs, or carrying off the bite sleeve after getting a good bite. These dogs are highly motivated, high drive working dogs. They love what they do. Yet the majority of agencies use either prong collars or choke chains on their dog. It's because they afford the handlers more control over a strong, drivey dog. Not because they're punishing and make the dogs fear their handlers.



If you're a pet dog owner and have a difficult dog - such as a large breed that can easily drag you down the road or a very drivey dog that will take off after any moving creature - I would much rather see you with a prong so you're in control of your dog, than with a choke or halti that can injure your dog (and you!) seriously when he/she decides to take off after a squirrel.



But I have to stress - ANY tool is only as good as who is using it. Learn how to use it correctly (have a trainer show you) and practice with it.



Lastly, I want to add that the prong collar is not currently illegal anywhere, including the UK. For some reason people keep saying that these collars are illegal in the UK or Australia in particular. That is not true. However, some countries restrict the import and sale of the collars to make sure they only are used by people who know how. (Which is pretty smart considering the amount of people I see who are completely clueless about using them.)

Answer 14

these actually look alot worse than they are......I personally dont use them but if used PROPERLY they can be ok....they are made to put pressure on the neck...they are for training ONLY!!!!! never leave this collar on and NEVER tie a dog with one on!!!! (dogs shouldnt be tied outside anyway but thats a whole different story)this collar needs to be correctly fitted and used under a trainers supervision.......usually once trained wearing one a dog can be switched to a regular collar.....some larger breeds or hyper dogs do well with this collar while in training......

Answer 15

That's a standard prong or pinch collar - they're not cruel at all - the prongs don't stab into the dog's neck. In fact, they don't put as much pressure in one spot as a slip or choke collar. They can be quite useful for training very strong stubborn dogs who don't respond to a standard collar.

Yes, I have one, and no, he doesn't behave out of pure fear, nor is he in agonizing pain. In fact, he can pretty much ignore it when he wants to.

Just a guess - you've never done any dog training, right?

Answer 16

The people who use these are not necessarily cruel, Just, I think , misguided. It's called a "pinch collar" and is often used by professional trainers in Shutzdog training. It isn't supposed to stay on the dog all the time.The key point here is how it's used. It is a martingale type of collar that pulls tight uniformly as it is pulled. Unlike a choke collar that just keeps tightening as long as you pull on it, it can be adjusted so that it never closes all the way. The trouble is when people who use this thing don't know what they're doing. The theory, I guess, is that it gives large powerful dogs immediate correction in the form a sharp "pinch".

Even though this type of collar has been used by pros for years to train guard dogs and police dogs I think they're deplorable. To me it's like saying,"If my kid misbehaves I'll just stab him with a Bic pen and he'll mind better."

I took my dog to a training class where they took one look at my 100lb White Shepherd and without even evaluating the dog's personality said I had to get a pinch collar. I took my dog and my hundred dollars and went home. But I must say as much as I am opposed to this type of collar, because they are a "martingale" type, they are still better than choke collars that have 100s of documented cases of doing physical harm and even death to dogs.

Answer 17

They are ijndeed cruel. Anyone who thinks about buying one should put it on, but not stop there. Get down on all fours with it on and let someone try to lead you as you struggle to get free. Some say they tried one on. So what. If there was no pullingt against the chain then of course it didn't hurt. It is frightening how many "professional" dog people say they use them all the time and that they are not cruel.

Answer 18

I'm glad they are not allowed or used in the UK. I don't care if the prongs do have rounded ends rather than sharpe ends. No wonder the Dog Whisperer gets results if he walks dogs with these ... nothing clever about that!! Regular and consistent training are all that are needed.



British, animal lover and proud of it!

Answer 19

I agree with howline.

It looks way worse then it actually is though.

When used properly it's a good training method.

Answer 20

Awww! That's so sad! I really don't get why people buy those! We should all write a letter to PetCo or something because having animals wear the collar is animal abuse! :(

Answer 21

Yes and have used it. With certain dogs it is a must for training. And no it is not cruel or painful. It is not meant to dig into the dogs flesh. Why not read about their use and how its used correctly prior to passing judgment.

Answer 22

It is not intended to be kept on the dog at all times. I actually had one for my Chow. It helped quite a bit with his training. If used properly, it is very useful.

Answer 23

First time i've ever seen one of those! Is it for real? If it is there needs to be loads of people like us animal lovers who need to report this site for even advertising a contraption such as this! Thats barbaric and should be banned. Surely to God there aren't any dog lovers out there who'd use this device? Its sick and if i saw someone on the streets with a dog wearing this vile and cruel collar, i'd rip the f*****g thing off and make the owner wear it! Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Answer 24

well first of all you're thinking about it in the wrong way.

in the dog world...dominate dogs use their MOUTH to bite at the necks of subordinate dogs in order to show dominance over the other dogs.

therefore this collar (which doesn't hurt at all like you think) applies the same idea by acting as "teeth" for the person walking the dog.

every time the dog tries to jump, run, or otherwise misbehave on the leash the prongs apply pressure to the neck, sending the signal: STOP! you are NOT behaving the way *I* the alpha dog says you should.



this collar is for dogs that are extremely aggressive on the leash, or otherwise misbehave. it's a way for the owner to reassert their dominance as PACK LEADER. it doesn't hurt the dogs..and in my opinion is MUCH better than a choke chain which i absolutely HATE and are dangerous.



look up this collar on google and READ what it's used for before judging it.

Answer 25

Anything is abusive if misused! I have used this particular collar one time on a rescue who weighed 100lbs. I used it for one week everyday while walking and never used it since on him or any other dog. The choker only would choke him and the prongs got his attention. He was a perfect angel after that.

Answer 26

Not cruel at all if used properly. Much more humane than a 'choke' collar.



Any collar or leash can be dangerous in the wrong hands- just like the dog itself.

Answer 27

yes i will never get one for my dogs. its the worst Way to train a dog.

Answer 28

i had one of those for my dog. i put it on first. it is not cruel. it trains them to walk correctly.

she was very big, and aggressive. it helped her to calm down. and i really love animals, so it is not cruel if used properly

Answer 29

Stupid American invention no doubt....

USA land of stupid mean dog product, crazes, fads and ideas.....

USA where all this Dog cage / crates stuff came from, which is mean and unkind.



Yes, ok, I AM expecting lots of thumbs down... from AMERICANS and all the PRO cage lobby!

Answer 30

Very "humane" and effective. In hands of dog illiterate person, any device can be "extremely cruel".

BTW, do your homework first.

Answer 31

No. Those are for big or strong dogs. A choke collar is a good training aid. The one shown is for the bigger dogs because it can immediately get their attention.

Answer 32

They're actually more humane than they seem. The points are dull, so it would just send feedback to the dog, not pain.



Leaving them on the dog is another story, but if used correctly, that - it's a prong collar - is actually a good training tool and quite humane. You can put one around your leg at Petco and feel how much the prongs dig in. It's really not that bad at all.



That said, I don't advocate their use by people who won't read up about their proper use.

Answer 33

That really is revolting and anyone who buys one should be made to wear it themselves.

Answer 34

If I used one of them in the UK i'd be in big trouble. If your dog is hard to control when out walking get the collar i've got it goes round the dogs mouth (it's a soft lead material) so if she/he pulls you it will tighten.

Answer 35

i agree with you those things do hurt i use to have those on my dogs but then i learned that they are just for pain in dogs and i threw those away and never will get one again at least i'm not the only person who hates those thank you very much for regonizing these types of " collars" that give poor dogs pain

Answer 36

they are illegal in the UK but used in USA. I would not use on if they were available here

Answer 37

This is totally harmless. It's just a dog, people.

Answer 38

They are painful and they are horrible things. I've worked with dogs for 4 years and they are one of the worst contraptions I have seen yet. Owners who buy these want to control their dogs and have them obey them. Instead of having the dog listen to them and living with their dog. If anyone argues, heres my question to you: Have you ever worn one? Try a harness, one with a D loop on the back. They are much more comfortable.

Look I'm tired of people who say "big strong dogs" and "bully breeds" You want big try a 225lb rottie. That is a biiiig dog. And I don't care who you are, thos "pin" collars are painful, put one on and let someone walk you with it, then tell me they're not. You don't need them to train anything, if thats the only way you can train a dog then you need some help. I have never had trouble training a dog with a regular old harness.

A dog should listen because it wants to, not because you give it no choice.

Answer 39

Thats horrible! If anyone truely loves their dog, then why use one of those things?! Its 100% Sick..

Answer 40

Yup got one.. They are far more humane than a regular chain collar is..

Answer 41

It looks extremely painful and I would never use one on my pets...... They should put them on the owners and see how they like It! Pets are like children and if they are brought up right will be socially acceptable..... They should just ban idiots who don't know how to rear animals from owning one...



I'm surprised they are allowed to be sold.......

Answer 42

I would never even concider using one of these on any dog i owned or trained. There are always other ways of training a dog - i know the points on these are not really sharp but i would not like one used on me so why put an animal through it too?



I am a dog trainer and i would never suggest them to the owners - there are so many other ways of training your dog with positive reinforcement so why use something that would punish the dog? Not really very effective! dogs respond much better if you use a positive rather than a negitive way of training!

Answer 43

I have 4 dogs and I would never consider putting such a thing on them! I have only one that has a bad pulling problem when on leash, so I use an anti-pull harness...works great and harmless.

Answer 44

thats teribble !!! they should be turned in for crulity 2 animals !!

Answer 45

yep!



all my dogs are giant breed dogs



and use harnesses

Answer 46

I don't use them. I see them to be unneccessary and pointless if YOU do a good enough job of training your dog. I've noticed a lot of people that seem to think dogs can train themselves, especially when wearing those. Sad, sad.

Answer 47

Wow, that looks awful! I certainly would never put one of those on my dog no-matter HOW badly she behaved, there is always other options to that, always help some where or another, theres no need to subject a dog to a bloomin collar thats gonna make him feel like hes being stabbed every time he gives a tug. Stupid people inventing stupid things. Its ridiculous.

Answer 48

Omg!! That's horrible! I have never seen one of those or even heard of one and Ive worked in the veterinary practises for 6 years. Maybe the owners should wear one out on their walks and they might not pull either!!

Answer 49

thats just sick, can it really be legal cos thats jus unbelievably cruel

Answer 50

I have seen them before - I think they may be banned in the UK ( not certain on that )

But yes I agree that is one evil piece of gear and I wouldn't let one anywhere near my dog

Answer 51

Oh my goodness..you have got to be kidding me...is it even legal to sell things like that? Do the RSPCA know about that site? Or am I just being really naive?

Answer 52

i only have a choke collar not ne like that

I would have to think it hurt though

Answer 53

I definitely agree with you; there are more Humane ways of doing things than this.

Answer 54

omg i hate those collars, they are the worst, to anybody reading this don't buy one they hurt your dog, and theyed hurt you if you bought one. DONT GET ONE!!!!!!!!

Answer 55

o.m.g. that's worse than the Crucifixion. are they legal? I didn't think that things like that could be sold for pets or any animals for that matter

Answer 56

no, its not cruel. its meant for larger breeds and breeds that tend not to respond to other forms of discipline. if they're used properly, they are not cruel.

Answer 57

ohhhh that looks painfull and yes cruel too...poor dog!!!

Answer 58

Well if you were taining an out of control massive dog then maybe it would be nessacary. Other than that, I agree with you, that is indeed extremely cruel!

Answer 59

oooh. That's sick. That site should be done for promoting cruelty to animals.

Answer 60

THAT'S BRUDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who would ever get one of those..... I know i wouldnt



But some people are stupid enough to buy that kind of stuff.

Answer 61

this sholud be emailed to the dog whisperer.

Answer 62

That's horrendous!

*buys 10*

*strings up all the nasty dogs in our area*

*walks down the street in peace again*