If you were to start your breeding program all over again?

Question

Were would you start? How would you pick your foundation *****? What kind of pedigree would you make? What traits would you look for in your first and second generation puppies? Is there any sound, tested, true advice you have learned that you could share? I am looking for any good advice on this subject.

This is a Question for responsible dog breeders.

Thank you,

Answer 1

I've been at that point a couple of times. I'm pretty well out of Samoyeds .. have only a young male in the house.. coown a couple b*tches and now need to decide if I'm going to start "breeding" myself again or just ride on some co-breedings. I also within the last 6 years went into Bernese and had to find a foundation b*tch I consider worthy of working with.



Things I considered:

Work ethic- If the dog can't do the job it was bred for it is WORTHLESS to the breed.

Pedigree

Consistancy: Ability to reproduce a HIGH percentage of HIGH quality pups (its far better to produce 50+% show quality pups than 25%... and the overall quality of the litter is higher as well... I do NOT want to deal with the ONLY show pup in a litter of 10 EVEN IF it is phenomenal... simply because it is unlikely to reproduce a high percentage of high quality pups)

Genetics: I investigated 10 generations of the pedigree AND found as much information on related dogs NOT on the pedigree as possible. Its great if all the dogs on the pedigree have been OFA'd CERF'd etc... but if their siblings couldn't pass or weren't even checked how do you know what YOUR dog will produce?

Indepth knowledge of the weaknesses of the line- The Sam I have now comes from a line known for weak rears... *he* has a superb rear. My Bernese girl comes from lines known to have less furnishings than other lines.

Performance of the line with other lines- Seriously, if you cannot breed it anywhere but to the same line without getting a ton of ick how on earth are you going to continue to build improve the faults your line has?



You have to have a clear vision of what YOU believe the breed is meant to be... the parts the standard doesn't spell out. You need to figure out what is most important to you and how to keep or achieve that. For me... its all about whether the dog can work AND still fit the standard and win in the showring. But first its about the purpose of the breed...



Its often difficult to find breeders who are willing to share the dark secrets of their lines. But if you listen, take notes (even surreptiously) you can glean a whole lot of information. You also have to be able to do deductive reasoning- ie: the dog that has multiple Group and BIS wins but never has an OFA number probably has an issue ...



You also have to be strong and not waver when the naysayers don't understand why you chose a structurally strong b*tch who is a bit plain as a foundation b*tch rather than the flashy show winner with the structure faults and the cute face.



ALWAYS choose structure and ability to perform the job over flash. You can add flash and coat in one generation. Fixing structure faults is a multi-generation thing.



Edit: For Samoyed Lover: There is not a single responsible reputable Samoyed breeder in the US that will sell a puppy at less than 8 weeks of age and more likely 10 weeks. The SCA requires a minimum of 7 weeks and THAT will probably be revised very soon. I also know VERY VERY few reputable responsible Sam breeders who EVER use their own studs... it is so very unlikely that their stud would be THE BEST dog to be bred to the b*tch and great breeders are all about producing the BEST. My grandparents bred Sams.. I've been breeding them for 19 years... the only reason I'm not breeding now are my own health issues.



Editx2: bellacav: AMEN!!! great great advice.



Editx3: apparently Samoyed Lover has removed her answer...

Answer 2

I'm not a dog breeder, but IF I were to become one I would go to a dog show, find a dog breeder from the breed I'm interested that seems very well established, and work out buying a nice ***** from him/her. I would try to find one that's as close to the breed standard as possible and breed her to a stud that corrects her faults but also has most of her good traits. I wouldn't look for a champion sired/mothered *****, but one that has good temperament, hips, and reasonably nice conformation.



This is a great question; I wish I had more experience behind me to help me with my answer! I have absolutely no experience with dog breeding whatsoever. Makes me appreciate all the more the fact that there are responsible breeders in the world.

Answer 3

if I could do it all over again......?



I would still go with the dogs I started with, because I learned a lot from them. My first show dog was a beautiful dog with horrible health. I finished his Championship easily, and through him I learned how to deal with Color Dilute Alopecia, enamel hypoplasia, sebaceous cysts, IBS, thyroid.... you get the idea!



Through him, I vowed that I would never knowingly put another person through what I had to go through.



The dogs I have now please me immensely, they are health tested up the whazoo, and any dog that doesn't meet my criteria is spayed or neutered and retired as a companion.



What I WOULD change, though, is that I would not have allowed myself to get drawn into the backbiting that happens at dog shows. I would have stepped back and formed my own opinions of people, instead of believing what someone might tell me, and even worse, spreading it myself.



I would have learned how to acknowledge quality in other dogs and not say I lost becasue of politics or the judge was stupid.



I would have been a more gracious loser, and a more gracious winner.



I would not have been the obnoxious 5 year veteran know it all - those same 5 year veteran know it alls I see now just plain piss me off! And I used to be one of them....



It took me 20 years to learn this lesson, and even in the five years since, I still find myself slipping once in awhile (when someone asks "you wanna hear some good gossip about ?" the heart still races, but I have to say no thanks. Or listen and shrug it off in my mind.)



So I don't think I'd change anything about the dogs, but I'd have changed a lot about me.



How's that for some brutal honesty?

Answer 4

Wow. Tough Q. I think I would start the same place I did, attending dog shows and meeting respected people in the bree before I bought my first dog. I had the advantage of building a support network of more experienced breeders via e-mail groups on the internet. Frankly, it was a bit of a blessing I didn't have any money to spend when I started learning, or I'd probably have bought the first dog I saw that was pretty. I got educated before I could afford to buy.



In choosing my foundation b!tches, now that I know lines better, I would go for a less popular line and go for a bit less popular, but more consistent line. I got improvement, and sometimes in ways I didn't expect. I'd choose to reduce that factor of "unexpected".



Of course in the first and second generation of pups, I want improvement. I had specific goals in my first breeding, and they were to improve the rear on the ***** and the front of the dog, as those were the outstanding virtues on the opposite partner in the breeding. I wanted to preserve the sire's head detail, and improve on the b!tches. I wanted to preserve the moderate size on both. Any pups not showing these improvements were placed as pets.



Best tried and true advice? Get ANY dealings in WRITING! Do NOT buy a dog sight unseen because you *think* you know someone well enough to trust them. Learned those lessons in the School of Hard Knocks. Lost a lot of money and made myself some bad feelings that way. But then again, I DID learn who NOT to trust.

Answer 5

If I had it to do all over again I would have broke the bank, so to speak, and bought a Champion b*tch from overseas. There are wonderful Bull Terriers right here in the states but I would have started my foundation from imported lines to enrich my own starting point. The stud that I would have chosen for her would be the best Colored male that I could find that complimented her and had strengths in any areas that she may be lacking. In my puppies I would look for about what I look for now: Dynamic heads and over all structure, sound temperament and vigorous health.

Advice that I would give is that even though we hear it again and again in just about everything that we do... the statement that you get what you pay for is never more true than in the game of dogs!

It is easier to go broke in the beginning and start out with the absolute best than to claw your way to the top when you start with just "above average".

All dogs are precious but when you want to be a serious breeder... every decision is one that you and your entire future in dogs is going to have to deal with for years. There are no short cuts or easy outs.

There are many good ppl to be met but there are just as many shady characters to be careful and avoid.

It is a wonderful world but just like in any life that you choose there are soaring heights and devastating blows with endless days of tedium laid out in between.

Your satisfaction will come as you finally see the fruits of your decision making in the generations of dogs you helped to bring into this world go forth into lives of their own. Some will shine in the spotlight while others will rule sofas… but you as a responsible and careful breeder will be overjoyed with the accomplishments of each one and the impact (or lack of impact in the case of the ones that you have placed in loving pet homes) that your “doggie children” are going to make in your breed as a whole. You will know that the blood that you have added to gene pool is the best and that future generations of dogs will be better because of decision that you made in the past.

~Tyed~

What a great question! I love most of the answers that you have gotten so far!

Answer 6

I am not a breeder, but I would hope that ANY reputable breeder, starting today, would carefully reconsider what they are doing for their breed, regardless of what breed it is, how many litters they have, and just what kind of stock they breed out.

If most breeders today truly analyzed their breeding program and asked themselves if they were actually helping the breed, NOT to mention if they are contributing to the overpopulation crises instead of helping to curb it, I do believe most breeders, in good conscience, would halt their program and either take a couple of years off to reestablish their stock/protocols, or quit breeding altogether.



In reality, 90% of all breeders today, who claim to be breeding responsibly, that is, doing health certs, showing their dogs, participating in breed activities, etc, are actually not breeding as responsibly as they can.



I wish all breeders would reevaluate their breeding and their stock...we would have so many fewer puppies born, both out of backyard breeders and "reputable" show breeders.



I am against 95% of all breeding and breeders and I think a reputable breeder should have no more than ONE litter per year. A dog with lines that deserves to be carried on can successfully do just that with ONE litter for their entire lifetime. How many reponsible breeders do this??



Very few.

Answer 7

1) go with a dog that has conformation as close to standard as possible

2) go with a dog that has proven health 7 longevity in it's pedigree

3) go with a dog that not only looks good and can pass health testing but can also excel in other areas such as obedience, earthdog, herding, tracking,sleding, etc in otherwords a conformation dog that is also a "doing" dog...titles at both ends

4) attend shows & performance events

5) really study pedigrees

6) be very, very familiar with your breeds standards in all areas

7) work to add something worthwhile back to your breed besides just puppies

Answer 8

Excellent question.Forget what will win the ring now and go for what will be contributing to the breed ring down the line.