How do people NOT make a profit from dog breeding?

Question

Right don't bite my head of, this is just a question. Before I start, I just want to note this in no way implies to my self. I always see people saying that you do not profit from dog breeding of course this don't apply if the pregnancy or birth went wrong. I will start with the fact were I live KC reg Husky Puppies sell for £750, so to say there was 6 in a litter. That is already over £4,000.

Right now I continue to say that, they them selves had brought they're puppy for £750. Of course I will not add they cost of food from then to now to feed the dog the whole time, because Im not talking how much it cost's to keep a dog, i'm talking about breeding.

So they got the Husky Hip/Eye Score done, which I noticed costs around £300 all together. If that was all cleared and went well, then KC stud dogs go at around £200 a stud were I live. DNA profiling costs £25.

Also it costs £70 for a kennel name, and aprox £90 to register a litter. Then £105 for a good size puppy pen. Food would be around £50, and Front Line and Wormer all together £100. Then Vet check would be around £40. Some breeders also state they do not do first injections because vets here say its a good idea to get both jabs at the same vet. Because different vets use different brands.

So all together that is aprox £1380, am I missing some thing please inform me? It may be different oversea, but that is how I see it. Im aware a emergency out of hours c-section can cost way over £2,000. What am I missing? Some one let me know? I my self am against puppy mills and so on. I do not breed, i'm not talking about my pet dogs, im talking about other breeders in generall.

Answer 1

The ONLY one in here that makes sense and is 10000% correct is Dutch..the rest are talking out of their collective asses to make it sound like they are martyrs of their breed.

I know of NO breeder that makes no money, why would they not, how do they support their kennels? Breeding is a BUSINESS in which you produce the best WORKING dogs you can and you sell them for REAL money.



http://www.jinopo.cz/pups.php

Count how many litters THE Patron Saint of the GSD world has bred in April alone, do you think he is losing money? He bred 40 litters last year and I very seriously doubt anyone's dogs in here that talks about being a "reputable" breeder can match his dogs. Do you think he lost money on 40 litters?



Dutch, they are a lost cause in here, there is no sense in trying to educate the hallucinating...nice to see you back again...its about time.

Answer 2

Simply They Are Not Making A lot Of Profit If The Breeder Has Only Bred One Litter All Year Round. Proper Breeders Will All Ready Have There Own Stud Dogs. So For Example They May Breed The Two Males With 3 Females Each. Now Say They Had A Litter Size Of 6. Then That Would Be 6 x 6 = 36. Then £750 x 36 = Then That Would Be £27,000. I Think They Would Have Made A Lot Of Profit. Also You Have to Take Into Consideration. That Some Breeders Sell There Pups From £1000-£2000. Because They Are Show Quality, Working Dogs, Or A Rare Breed. Your Making More Then Half A Profit. Hope This Answered You Question

Answer 3

If we are talking quality breeding, then you will have to include costs for dog shows and trials, since this is what people are talking about when they say there is little profit in dog breeding. It is much easier to make a profit with the kind of breeding you give as an example. If I were to breed my dog with the nearest health-checked male and not take food, vaccinations, work, wear and tear etc. into consideration, then I would likely make a profit as long as she whelped more than 4-5 puppies.



But serious breeding does involve shows, trials, preferably mental tests, and you have to be lucky to find the perfect stud match in your area. The sire of my first dog was a Belgian import, which the breeder purchased for their breeding lines, the sire of my current dog is Belgian, so the breeder took the dam to Belgium for the mating, which means dog pasports, transportation costs, an overnight stay at a hotel on the way there and back etc.

Answer 4

"say there was 6 in a litter" - Say there was only one in the litter? Huskies have fairly small litters as a rule and although big litters do occur, the setting up costs are the same for a litter of one as a litter of 10.

"Im not talking how much it cost's to keep a dog, i'm talking about breeding" But without the dog - you won't be breeding - at least 2 yrs of dog food and routine vet bills for de-fleaing, worming & innoculations and maybe you'll then discover that, for any number of reasons, your b1tch isn't suitable for breeding.



"KC stud dogs go at around £200 a stud" - Stud prices usally keep pace with puppy prices - I'd expect to pay a LOT more than £200 for a proven stud producing good quality pups.

"Food would be around £50" What??? have you any idea how much a nursing dam will eat? Have you any idea how much a rapidly growing litter costs to feed on a high quality food?

You haven't included fuel costs - a good breeder will travel to the other end of the country for the right stud dog - add another £100+ and if you live a long way from a specialist ophthalmogist or vet centre doing hip scoring, you could add another £100 on for them.

You haven't included the cost of replacing the things a litter of 6 will damage/destroy, laundry costs, advertising the litter, the cost of new bedding for the pups & dam.

Most important - you haven't included the cost of building up a good reputation for the breeder and their dogs - if they show or work on a regular basis £2000 wouldn't pay for 6 months entry fees/accomodation/fuel and equipment.

Breeding a litter is a big gamble - you may have no puppies, you may have one puppy that you wish to keep, you may have 10 - 6/7 of which you can't immediately find good homes for and will eat you out of house and home and will have to be vaccinated before sale - about £50 each, plus repeated advertising costs. You may have a ill puppy or puppies or the dam may need extra veterinary attention. Finally - if you add in labour costs , even at below minimum wage - you'd find there is no profit at all!

Answer 5

I know is an extremely old question to answer, right? but here I go:

I'll have to say YES!

This is my case and im so sorry if the 90% of the people who answers questions around the web aren't agree with me.

I own an small number of breeding females, 4 females and 1 male, I've bought my first female $650 when she was 2 yrs old. That allowed me to get a litter of 8 puppies right away, she got Vet certified first Hearth, Eyes, Elbows and Hips $450 (not with CERF or OFA yet); then I'd have to pay stud services $500.

Was an easy delivery, we raised them with an OK puppy food (nutro) $120, socialized with my family and potty trained for 8 weeks. Then we created this puppy kit with items like:



collar,leash,thick/flea control, food/water bowls, hair brush, harness, potty bags, utility bag, 5 lb puppy bag, treats, 3 dewormings, 2nds of shots, AKC/Pedigree paperwork from the parents and full AKC registered. Total items cost: $464 approx. $55-60 each.



I sold them for $750 in 2 weeks= 8 pups x $750 = $6000 - $2184 = $3816 profitable approx.



Since then I bought 3 more females and a male, right now they're all OFA and CERF certified (thanks god).

Our breeding program only allows us to breed once a year each female and stud out my male.

We buy our puppy kit goodies in bulk prices and skipping stud fees as well, we bring an steady "profitable margin" of $21,000 - 23,000 annually



We use the money to buy new females every 2 yrs, Money goes to buy good food without corn, wheat, gluten or corn as well, 2 vacation trips per year and savings.

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Answer 8

Everything Bob said and more. Did you stop to think that owning a breeding kennel is a full time JOB! You don't have the luxury of being able to hold down and 8 to 5 where you actually receive a paycheck and benefits because they're aren't enough hours in the day. And good breeders spend a fortune campaigning their dogs at shows and field trials to prove their dog's abilities.



And breeders have to earn enough to live on. They also have house payments, insurance, utilities, etc., the basics. There's no bonuses here other than the pride you feel when your dogs do well and for love of the breed that you continually try to improve upon.



I ran a breeding kennel for 15 years until my husband's ill health forced us to close. But it was 15 years of the hardest and most rewarding work I have ever done. We were fairly successful but we didn't gauge that success on the amount of money we made because after all was said and done it was minimal.



ADD: If you're talking about "breeding in general" and people who "do this once a year" - then you're talking about back yard breeders. That's a WHOLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL! Most don't give a rat's *** about the health of their dogs. They breed garbage to garbage and get garbage. Then they sell to ignorant people who don't know that they're buying a genetic defect or even if they're buying a purebred dog. I can't say if they make money or not - they probably do since they spend nothing to ensure the health of the female or the puppies. These people produce what shelters are overflowing with - UNWANTED DOGS!

Answer 9

Even if *you're* "not talking how much it cost's to keep a dog, i'm talking about breeding", that still has to be paid, and don't forget that the dam should be a minimum of 2 years of age before being bred, so that's a minimum invested of $1700 (average costs is $850 per year) plus the original cost to purchase her. Some don't get bred until age 3 or 4, since they're busy with their show careers and sometimes the timing of the litter isn't right (people have LIVES, and when you have a litter, you can't go on vacation, etc.)



You've also left out showing the dam to her championship. Hard to put a price on that, can run anywhere from a couple of hundred dollars to a couple of thousand, depending on how tough the competition is and how far you're willing to travel to show the dog. And what if the dog is good enough to campaign as a Champion? That is thousands of dollars, even tens of thousands. Traveling costs (plane fare and taxis or gas for the vehicle, hotel bills, handlers' fees, entry fees, advertising) add up REALLY fast.



What about shipping the dam to the stud? Only a fool breeds just to local dogs. When you want the best, you have to go to the best, even if he's on the other side of the continent. That means shipping (depending on size of dog, anywhere from $500 to $1000 round trip) or taking time off work to drive her there. Of course, more and more people are relying on AI (Artificial Insemination), but that has collection fees, express shipping fees, and fees charged by the vet to do the tests to see when the female is most fertile and inseminate her. Probably not a whole lot of difference in price....



What about Sanction Matches? Handling classes? Obedience classes? Seminars? More $$$.....



Hey, I once flew out to California just to WATCH a Specialty show weekend for my breed. Seeing dogs in person is a whole lot different from relying on photos in a magazine, and I was particularly interested in seeing a few of the top-winning studs. Meanwhile, my own dogs got boarded in a kennel at home for 5 days--more $$$. And while I considered that an educational holiday, it's not something I'd have done if I didn't have show dogs.



I could go on, but I think now you're getting the drift?



EDIT:

"I also am not counting showing your dog, I'm just on about the breeding in general."



Well, you should have been more specific earlier then, when you said "i'm not talking about my pet dogs, im talking about other breeders in general". That INCLUDES show breeders.



If you are just talking about people who NEVER show, that is a whole different ball game. Yes, they would make money because their only incentive for breeding IS to make money. They use the most convenient studs (often have 1 of their own which services all their females). They don't care about the quality of pups they produce, just the $$$. We call those people Backyard Breeders. One step up from puppy mills.



BTW, just thought I'd throw this into the mix as well (for those who still think show breeders should be rolling in money): I know someone who spent a lot of money importing a top quality female Golden Retriever. Gorgeous dog, very quickly captured her championship and was lightly campaigned (took at least one Group First that I can recall). While awaiting being campaigned seriously after she reached maturity, she was doing obedience and getting her CD. Then came the fateful day at 2 years of age when the hip X-rays were done. Mild hip dysplasia. This dog moved as soundly as any I've seen, no one even suspected anythign wrong (which is why X-rays are necessary). No way she should be bred. She'd likely do fine as a pet as long as the owner didn't stress the hips (jumping etc.) She was spayed and sent to a pet home. Now, the dog's breeder did the right thing and refunded the purchase price. But the owner was still out shipping costs, maintaining the dog for 2 years, showing costs, handling classes, etc. Thousands of dollars spent, not a single thing to show for it.

Answer 10

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Answer 13

How about this:



COSTS OF HAVING A LITTER

All of the tests listed are necessary for the health of the ***** and her litter and also to screen for possible genetic problems that could occure in future generations.



NORMAL EXPENSES

BEFORE THE BREEDING

Shots, Worming $ 75



Brucellosis Test (Doggy VD) $ 25



Hips x-rayed (for dysplasia) $ 200



Elbows x-rayed (for dysplasia) $ 75



Thyroid Test $ 50



ACVO/CERF (eye exam $45 per/8 years $ 360



DNA Test For PRA (eyes ) $ 250



AT TIME OF BREEDING

Stud Fee $ 500



Boarding Expenses $ 200



AFTER THE BREEDING

Good Quality Food $ 90



Whelping Box $ 100



Whelping supplies-scale, blankets, towels, etc. $ 100



AT BIRTH

Vet check for Mom & Pups $ 75



Dew Claw Removal $10 per puppy $ 100



AS PUPPIES GROW

Clean Up material/garbage bags $ 25



6 week vet visit with shots $ 250



Newspaper Ad $ 40



Puppy Food $ 90



X-Pen for Puppies $ 75



Safe Toys $ 50



APPROXIMATE TOTAL COST

Not including problems $2,730



PROBLEMS OVER & ABOVE THE NORMAL COSTS

Troubles during delivery/C-section $ 850

Trouble after delivery/ Mastitis $ 300

Supplements if your ***** won't nurse $ 150

Euthanasia for physically deformed puppies $ 50

Trouble if a puppy/puppies don't do well $200+++

PARVO and possible loss of some or all puppies $3000+++

Other associated difficulties too many and too varied to mention

but they can and do happen $200+++++++



These figures are based on a litter of 10 which is an

average sized litter for a larger dog)

(These figures only include dollars spent and not time spent)

Source: http://www.godivalabs.com/cost.html

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Answer 15

Stud fees are almost always the cost of a pup - so $750 in this case.



You forget that the dam needs to be fed and housed before and between litters - it costs $500-1000 annually to properly care for a dog - she needs to be at least 2 years old for her first litter, and will not be bred more than every-other year, there's another $1000-2000 per litter in costs right there.



By "vet check" you are only referring to checking the puppies after birth - what about pre-natal exams, updated vaccinations/wormings, an ultrasound or x-ray? Toss on another $500 or so there.



You are also not accounting for any training classes or showing - a good breeder will do both in some venue or another, 8 weeks of training will be $100-400, a show weekend could cost $50 per entry for fees, and you often have to travel, stay in hotels, and even hire professionals to work one-on-one training and showing your dog - we're talking it could be $10,000 to get a Ch and a companion or performance title.



Finally, what about missed work? A good breeder will insist on being there every second during at least the week before a dam is due and at least two weeks after birth - 3 weeks off of work, more if the litter is orphaned. If you made even just $10 per hour and worked 40 hours per week, that's $1200 in lost wages.



My first job was a breeding and training kennel. My boss wanted to breed and show (in hunt tests and field trials) his own dogs for a living. He had DARN good dogs, the kind that sell for $1000 as unproven pups and where a stud fee can be $2000 or more. He worked 12 hour days, trained up to 50 dogs belonging to other people each month, had boarding facilities for another 20 or so, and his wife worked full-time just to maintain a middle-class lifestyle. If anyone should have been making money breeding dogs, it should have been him. Instead, he had an entire dog-centered business built up so that he was able to integrate the time needed daily to work with his own dogs, his spouse had to a have an entirely separate full-time job, and they barely made ends meet. He also had to retire altogether when he was 40 because of the toll that the constant physical labor of keeping a kennel and training gundogs took on his body.



The ONLY way to make money ethically at all, is if you have a very, very large kennel and are selling pups and/or started dogs like hot cakes. I do have a friend who makes his living (barely) breeding and training German Shepherd Dogs for Police, Military, and Personal Protection. He can barely make is selling pups at $2000 each and dogs with 12-18 months of training for $10,000-20,000. There are a LOT of expenses, and he can't ever take a vacation or even a day off from feeding, training, pooper-scooping, etc.



Does that make sense?



ADD: If you don't count any of the expenses of maintaining and showing a dog (just considering that side of it your $5000-a-year hobby?) then you can make it look like you're making money on paper. But if you're talking about actually coming out ahead as in having more money than if you hadn't decided to show and breed and just had a pet dog, then you're almost certainly still in the hole. Also look at the fact that there are OFTEN complications when you whelp a litter - the puppy-buyers fall through and you have to care for an extra 2-3 pups for several additional months, the dam needs a c-section, a pup gets sick, the dam retains a placenta, the dam doesn't produce enough milk or a puppy is weak and you need replacement formula, etc. ONE complication and you can be in the hole for a couple thousand, if you count all the litters you've ever bred combined, that much must be "made up" on the next litter before you can even think about "profit". A business/making money accounts for ALL expenses and ALL income over the course of the entire venture, discounting some of either does not give an accurate picture of the actual cash-flow of the adventure.

Answer 16

You forgot to add another important expense for reputable breeders that are in it for the improvement of the breed. Those reputable breeders also show their dogs to a championship before breeding them.

When you add the expense of travel, hotel, meals on the trips, entry fees, and possibly a professional handler to show the dogs to their championship before you breed, you start off in a negative monetary position before the first litter is bred.



Just as an example:

Let's say a handler charges $75 per show and an entry fee per show is $25.

Many dog competitions have shows on Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sunday



That would be $400 for each weekend just to show. If the dog wins it's breed and goes to group, you may incur another handler's fee.

In addition, you will pay a mileage rate for the handler to transport your dog and a portion of that handler's expenses for hotels, food, etc for those shows. If you take the dog to the shows yourself, then you will have expenses of gas, food, hotels yourself and you will probably have to enter more shows to finish your dog than would a pro handler.



Breeding the right way is not cheap and there is very rarely any profit.

Answer 17

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Answer 18

Breeders with excellent bloodlines, show stock, and registration papers can, will, and DO make profit because their dogs sell at excellent prices and they have the knowledge and expertise to follow their b*tch through a healthy pregnancy and delivery. Champion line show dogs can sell for over $5000 each. Their 'backyard' bred counterparts will be lucky if they scrape by at $400.



It is the inexperienced breeders that have puppies on a whim who wind up spending more than they make. Dog-savvy owners are usually unwilling to spend a fortune on a puppy that comes from a questionable 'breeder' (aka that dude down the street who didn't spay his poodle).



Any owner interested in show stock or breeding lines will do their homework and only spend a small fortune on a dog with PROVEN bloodlines.....and two neighbors with registered German Shepherds still don't count as 'reputable' breeders so their pups won't make them a gigantic profit.

Answer 19

people claim they make no money because they put the money into keeping their dog, buying its food getting its booster jabs etc....



in my opinion this is money you would have to spend anyway so in effect you have saved yourself a fair bit of money, i.e. made a profit.



this is why some people choose to give away puppies for free or at much lower prices, because they genuinely are only accounting for those fees or if they dont do those things which many cross breed pups wont need they give away pups.



its all a matter of opinion really

Answer 20

1. I bought a show potential male from a responsible breeder $2000 (I'm talking American funds). I wasn able to negotiate a co-own with a female a year later that did not require any money changing hands.

2. I showed them about once a month for a year and half (about $350 a month for 18 months ($6300 more or less)

3. I had their hearts and hips evaluated ($170 and $550 for each dog). The males hips weren't good so we neutered him.

4. I paid a stud fee for a CH male with all his clearances ($2000) and about $500 for whelping supplies once the pregnancy was confirmed.

5. I paid about $500 in vet fees for progesterone, 2 transcervical AIs and post mating check ups)

6. I paid $2500 for a c-section.

7. I paid another $400 to repair 2 umbilical hernias caused when the vet tech left the clamps on too long and the pups were squirming across the table (witnessed by myself and another vet tech who promptly removed them)

8. I paid about $300 in vet checks for the pup and mom

9. Out of 10 pups, 9 lived. I gave two puppies back on the co-own agreement. Kept one for myself. Gave another away on a co-own to a different person (it's very hard to find good show homes so most of us end up giving show dogs away on co-owns rather than selling them). I sold one show potential for $2000 and one show potential female on a partial co-own for $1000. The rest were sold as pets on limited papers with a spay.neuter contract for $1300. So, I got $6900 in cash when the pups were sold, but did I make any money?? Ummmm....no. I lost my shirt.



ADD: Dutch- would you like to see my RECEIPTS asshat? made up? I wish.

Answer 21

I just LOVE IT when some bonehead pastes a bunch of bogus numbers in here. 99% of breeders make money...the others go out of business. Breed, professionalism, advertising, accomplishments and reputation play a large part in the amount of profit. Unfortunately, so do uneducated buyers of bogus mixed breeds.



ADD: "Experienced Breeders" don't buy puppies. Experienced breeders have a waiting list for their puppies. Experienced breeders don't have a gazillion dollars in bogus vet expenses that INexperienced "breeders" DO. NO Breeder has to worry about testing their puppies for adult conditions. The majority of tests are a ONE TIME expense. Experienced breeders sell puppies and therefore have no SHOW TO CHAMPIONSHIP (gag) expense. Expereinced breeders have their OWN stud dog....no stud fees. Accomplisehed breeders have sponsors and MINIMAL food expense. The numbers are BOGUS for EXPERIENCED breeders....very appropriate for wannabe breeders.



The ONLY sad part about breeders making money is as I said....Idiots who will pay through the nose for a mixed breed with a very cute, made-up "breed name".

Answer 22

That's what I want to know. If you some how are losing money or not "breaking even" then you are either breeding crappy dogs or doing something very wrong.





@Dutch I completely agree