reputable breeders have you heard of this?

Question

i came into class today and met some brain dead imbecile that plans to become a vet.

she tells me she is horrified because a vet down the road from where she lives did an unethical procedure on her neighbors cow and is now planning it for her dog.

what was this unethical procedure?

if any of you know what it is to flush a pregnant female and harvest a fertilized embryo and implant it in another cow this is that.

the neighbor had her reg angus cow impregnated with another cows (sexed) egg so the baby will be 100% unrelated to her herd of angus. so she can breed it to her females since it will be a bull.

the woman also shows labradors and asked the vet if it would be possible to implant an egg from her CH female lab (she has trouble conceiving managed to have 1 litter before but the owner was afraid she would loose her during deliver) into her other female lab who might have an easier time delivering.

the breeder expressed that the pups produced would have homes lined up all but one male that she might if it turns out as she likes and makes CH be bred to the surrogate mother who is a few points away from CH but should be CH by the time a male pup would be old enough to breed.

the girl claimed this was incest and has been harassing the breeder threatening to call PETA because she is forcing incest on her dogs @.@ (note none of these animals are related)

i would see that if it were humans and the child born from a surrogate mother was interested in the surrogate yes that would be sick but these are dogs and cattle and their is valid reason.

for the cattle its because she wanted another breed of cattle in her herd and wanted a purebred but couldnt afford to ship the animal she wanted in from another country so she bought the bull she liked sperm and a cow of that breed she liked egg.

for the dog its wanting better but fearing the loss of her dog who was only bred once but produced fantastic animals.

your thoughts?
if you were a breeder would you consider this method to get better dogs and keep your dogs alive? as well as improve lines?
would you use this method to get the offspring from two animals you dont own to add to your lines?
have you heard of flushing an inseminated egg from an animal and placing it in another female?

Answer 1

This is extremely common in the agriculture industry- especially with cattle and horses. They'll super-ovulate a female with superior genetics, and then flush the eggs or fertilized embryos for implantation into other females with less genetic value. It's to improve the overall quality of the herd without investing in more very expensive high quality stock. Embryo transfer is done with humans who have fertility issues as well!



I see no issues with it. It certainly is not "incest" if that offspring were then bred to the surrogate- as they have no genetic material in common.



As far as whether it should be used in dogs, I guess it would depend on the motives. In the instance that you refer to, the *itch has had problems birthing in the past. Many issues with birthing can have a genetic component to them, and if she is not able to whelp safely, are those genetics you'd really want to be passing along? I suppose if I had a champion *itch that was injured rather than innately flawed, resulting in inability to whelp safely, I'd consider it as a means to preserve the line. It wouldn't certainly have widespread applications for reputable breeders, as they aren't generally interested in producing and raising large quantities of pups from the same female. Dogs are already litter-bearing animals, unlike the other animal types that this is widely practiced in, you already get large numbers of puppies from a single pairing. The aim in its agricultural applications is to rapidly improve the genetic material in a large-scale production setting without large financial investment. I don't know any breeder I'd classify as "reputable" who'd be interested in having a large pack of genetically similar dogs. Plus the costs for the whole process are not insignificant when borne all by the same person, and it would be hard on the donor *itch. They're given a lot of hormones to stimulate egg production, and the process to flush them would not be without substantial discomfort and risk in an animal smaller than a cow.



Add: Actually, in cattle, it's widest use is not the small scale like what you're talking about. Yes, that happens, but far more of it is done on an enormous scale. You usually have a donor cow that's super-ovulated, all embryos fertlized, and all implanted into donors, often owned by the same rancher. It's very common practice in the dairy industry. A rancher might have a high quality cow retired from production that they super-ovulate regularly. They collect large amounts of eggs or fertlized embryos, and implant every last one of them in lower quality younger cows. Then there are the ET facilities that this is all they do. They buy high quality donor cows, high quality bulls, a bunch of lower quality cows, and sell the recipient cows following implantation. Some do sell embryos, but to sell the already-implanted recipient cow would be more common because the faster the process is done, the higher the success rate. You also have to remember that not all embryos implant- there's a fairly high rate of failure. In a litter-bearing species, they'd implant multiple embryos- up to normal litter size, plus some extras because they won't all be successful. Even in a single-bearing species, they may implant multiples and "pinch off" extras if there's a higher than normal success rate. How do you think we ended up with "octomom"? LOL

Answer 2

Embryo Transfer (Which is the proper term for this procedure) although common in Cattle and Horses IS NOT economically feasable in dogs.



"Abstract

The practicality and feasibility of embryo transfer technology in dogs and cats is quickly becoming a clinical reality. Although progress has been slow, I anticipate that embryo transfer will be a practical and an economical technique in the near future. Most importantly, it is essential that the practical lessons learned with equine and bovine embryo transfer be integrated into the development of canine and feline programs."



I would be fascinated to know the name of this vet that is going to do the embryo transplant on this womans Labrador.



We have a TOP reproductive Canine specialist in my area (people come as far as 500 miles away to see her) and this is not something she offers.



That being said ET is a wonderful tool to use in breeding programs.



I have leased out my own mares to others that wanted to do Embryo Transfer.



If the technology ever became a reality with dogs I would presume many reputable breeders would do it. What a great way to keep an old ***** in production since the embryos can be frozen and implanted later.

Answer 3

what you describe is common practise in cattle. As is fertilising a cow with semen from two totally different breeds of bull. The reason being that it can increase the chance of fertilisation and by using two totally different breeds, it is obvious when the calf/calves are born which bull was the sire.

#

Would I do it for dogs because my bltch was a bad breeding bltch? Absolutely not, I would not wish to contribute to passing on such bad genes. If the bltch herself could not conceive and delivery naturally, then the chances are that her offspring would also be poor broods.



I forgot, The "child" that "plans to become a vet" sounds like many little boys who "plan to become jet fighter pilots" - in her dreams!

Answer 4

I know it is very common in both horses and cows, not sure it would be worth it in dogs.